“While the Pope was in Australia, ..........he urged the Anglican Church to avoid schism”.

I have been baffled by the Pontiff’s opinion on this until I realised that as long as this Anglican war continues there will be a bleeding INTO the Roman church.

Can this be loosly interpreted as, “You go! Anglicans! Unity above theology! And keep sending us your best, your holy, and your brightest!”

Don

The harlot of Revelation 17 is calling her daughters home.

Beware everyone! It’s prophecy yet to be fulfilled.

Ah, Mugsie, don’t forget Maria Monk and all the other bizarre protestant fantasies that have seized many a fevered mind.

I have recently been stunned by this quotation from Carl Braaten in the article linked to elsewhere in T19:

Indeed, Braaten insists, the church’s “brain drain”—the parade of contemporary Lutheran theologians, one after another, joining other denominations—is caused by this loss of any unique Lutheranism . . . They are convinced that the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has become just another liberal Protestant denomination. . . . They are saying that the Roman Catholic Church is now more hospitable to confessional Lutheran teaching than the church in which they were baptized and confirmed.”

[italics mine]

It’s not of course news that Lutherans and others have gone to Rome, but the way this quotation encapsulates the new reality ...

Sorry, it’s the article from First Things at
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=6254

I think that the Very Revd David Richardson does not quite understand what the Vatican is saying. 
One has to read all the messages together. 

The Vatican has a big concern that was clearly stated about the choices being made or could be made by the Church of England (which is the partner in the formal ecumenical discussions) regarding theology and morals.  Also, he would have to show me the Vatican statement that says that schism is worse than getting theology and moral issues wrong.  I haven’t seen it.

2.  The RCC is trying to encourage problem-solving (if possible and no matter how unlikely) because division seems to lead to more division.  For example, it is possible for a solution to be structural.  Again, I don’t see the Vatican saying “At any cost.” 

3.  The RCC does not actively recruit from other Christian communities.  It is interesting that you have this interpretation when all the evidence makes it clear that the RCC has made it extremely difficult for groups to come into the Church. 

Mugsie, thanks for the laugh!  (Yes, yes, I know that you mean it.)  Your attitude is just so retro ... even medieval.  Oops, we are supposed to “own” that label.

Mugsie,

Your comments are quite silly, and can you please think beyond whichever Chick track that you have been handed, and READ something written by SOMEONE that doesn’t agree with you,  even we reasserting brethren have done so.  You do our cause no favor by your ignorance.

The Vatican is very right to be concerned about Anglican schism.  What needs attention, though, it the causes which are driving the upcoming schisms in TEC and Canada and the CofE.  Departures from the traditional teachings on ordained ministry and personal morality, and the intolerance of the traditional teachings, are the problem.  Breakages in the Communion are the symptoms of the underlying problems.  England can pull itself back temporarily from the brink by renewing, at least, the PEV scheme which it has had to date.  TEC appears to be over the edge and irretrievable, although there are still stalwarts intending to stay and fight the good fight.

The pope himself can be of two minds about what to do in a given situation, so it should be no surprise that within the collection of people that is the Vatican, we can find a spectrum of views.  More or less on one side might be a more aggressive willingness to reconcile small groups and individuals, and more or less on the other side is a deep suspicion of small, fragmented churches which are more difficult to dialog with—and ecumenical dialog is an end almost in itself for some, who realize that it won’t create structural unity right now, but decades down the line may perhaps bear fruit.

Dom Gander’s cynicism is misplaced.  He may have met people who tend towards the first end of the spectrum (aggressively welcoming converts), or he may simply be projecting that position onto people he’s never interacted with; either way, the reality is that the second position (decades-long talks) has been the most popular position in the Vatican since the late 1960’s.

9. Drew Na: “Don Gander’s cynicism is misplaced.”

Easily and I hope so. I hope that it was obvious that I was speculating. I also assume that the specualtion is wrong. I just want to know why the RC wants orthodox and Modern Liberals to continue the internal fight.

I still don’t know.

Don