As if Things Weren’t Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.

Posted by Kendall Harmon

For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.

In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."

Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis.

Read it all from the front page of this morning's Wall Street Journal.

Filed under: * Culture-WatchGlobalization* International News & CommentaryAmerica/U.S.A.EuropeRussia

64 Comments
Posted December 29, 2008 at 6:33 pm [Printer Friendly] [Print w/ comments]



1. perpetuaofcarthage wrote:

Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.

“It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time.” A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. “It’s not there for no reason,” he says with a sly grin.

... and they laughed at Sarah Palin!

December 29, 8:34 pm | [comment link]
2. Scott Gilbreath wrote:

Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls “The Central North American Republic.”

I think not.  For one thing, Canada is not a republic and most Canadians would not be willing to toss out the Queen just to accommodate a bunch of American states.  For another, the combined population of the putatively Canadian territories (states? provinces?) is over 60 million, almost double Canada’s present population.  Those American states would take over the whole country. Help!

December 29, 9:47 pm | [comment link]
3. Irenaeus wrote:

Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.

Let’s invite him over for a visit—-in 2011.

December 29, 10:23 pm | [comment link]
4. Chris wrote:

one country most likely to actually face the predicament that the Professor describes is…....Russia.  It is a testament to the slow news period that we generally see between Christmas and New Years that the WSJ could plausibly find a way to devote space to such drivel.

December 29, 10:31 pm | [comment link]
5. Jeffersonian wrote:

“We will bury you,” updated for 2008.

December 29, 10:41 pm | [comment link]
6. libraryjim wrote:

Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.

What? Again? Broken record, much?

December 29, 10:45 pm | [comment link]
7. Nikolaus wrote:

First, I think it fair to note that America was never convinced of the endurability of the Soviet Union as well.  But, at the same time, there is something off-kilter in the Russian perspective.  For example, there in a Russian blogger who insists that the leadership of the Orthodox Church has passed from Constantinople to Moscow.  The same blogger seems to worship the ground that Putin walks on.  But to predict the collapse of the US in 2010?  We have proven to be far more resillient (sp?) than most of the world gives us credit for.

December 29, 10:46 pm | [comment link]
8. Daniel wrote:

He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says

And we think we have problems with the validity and accuracy of CIA intelligence assessments?  This piece points out how partial truths can be dangerously misinterpreted as rival countries assess each other.  Such mistaken assumptions have led to armed conflicts before and I fear it will happen again.

What about the disintegration of Mother Russia based on the current price of oil and the world economy?  I don’t remember Wall Street having to close for entire days because the markets were in disarray, as happened recently in Russia.  The sad part is the Russian people continue to bear (no pun intended) the brunt of their leaders ambitions as they have done now for centuries.

December 29, 10:59 pm | [comment link]
9. Cennydd wrote:

Quick!  Call the boys in the white coats and send them to Russia with a strait jacket for this nutcase!  Of course, Russia’s got plenty of them, so let’s get them to lock this joker up in one of their loony bins!

December 29, 11:41 pm | [comment link]
10. physician without health wrote:

Gee whiz, I better order the Rosetta Stone Chinese lessons then since AZ will be part of China…

December 30, 12:23 am | [comment link]
11. Milton wrote:

Slightly amusing for a former KGB analyst in an officially godless repressive to Christianity for most of the last century to predict a moral collapse of the US.  By what moral yardstick is he measuring the US? (Although we give him plenty of grist for that mill, even on our own terms of mroality!)  Things must be pretty grim in Russia for him to be in such demand as a speaker.

December 30, 1:43 am | [comment link]
12. nwlayman wrote:

The man will have a talk show on radio soon.  The Russians have been stumbling around bumping into walls for several hundred years.  Nothing new.  The usual solution to problems is to have a few million people to throw at a problem, as with Napoleon (strategy: burn down Moscow, wasn’t it?) or Hitler.  I don’t know if they can pull that off anymore, though.

December 30, 1:50 am | [comment link]
13. Tired of Hypocrisy wrote:

The US has already disintegrated in many ways, but the notion that the Union will dissolve is pure balderdash. Why?  A hundred thousand reasons, but chief among them: The military will not disintegrate. Also, nobody would willingly join Canada, Mexico or China, let alone the frenchified euro union. Remember, the difference between the US and USSR is/was that the member states are not slave states. Now, will our corporations sell out to Chinese corporations or other nation-corps? Oh, yes, in a heartbeat. They’re doing it already. Oh, yes they are.

December 30, 1:58 am | [comment link]
14. Juandeveras wrote:

This guy’s Isvestia piece earlier this year stated that Russia never really sold Alaska to us ( in 1867 for $7,200,000.00 ) - they only leased it to us and they want it back. Yes, there is a long history of Russian Orthodox churches in Alaska - at least they’re not under the KGB. However, China’s collection of US Treasury notes is substantial, though China is having major problems running itself. On the other hand, this may be another Soros orchestrated attempt to bet against our country - he did it against his own country and people - the Jews of Hungary.

December 30, 2:39 am | [comment link]
15. AndrewA wrote:

Check out this for a good summary of the problems Russia and Friends are having.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123059924483041283.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

December 30, 9:46 am | [comment link]
16. Cennydd wrote:

Very enlightening, AndrewA…...thanks for posting it!

December 30, 10:21 am | [comment link]
17. William Witt wrote:

I really don’t see the problem here.  Italy’s government collapses on a fairly regular basis every few years or so.  Yet the Italians just keep going along as if nothing happened.

December 30, 10:26 am | [comment link]
18. evan miller wrote:

Dr. Witt,
My father used to say that Italy’s example proved that a country could get along just fine without a government.

December 30, 11:34 am | [comment link]
19. Vincent Lerins wrote:

He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.

This is the key part of his research.

However, this is old news. Panarin isn’t the only person predicting this. There are think tanks and trend forecasters that have been predicting this for several years. We should take this very seriously. If the world’s new ‘lord and savior’ isn’t able to deliver the US from its political and economic issues, the division of America will happen. I see three ways this will happen.

1.  The government tries to institute martial law (for whatever reason). This will include the confiscation of firearms. There are 100 million gun owners in America and if only 1% fight back, that’s 1 million combatants. And don’t forget about the militia groups.

2.  Complete economic and financial collapse of America. Food riots, bank holidays, etc. Panarin is correct that wealthier states will withhold funds and secede from the union.  That’s in their best interest. Also, foriegn countries have many assests in this country and would move to secure those assests.

3.  Barack Obama being assassinated. Most cities with large minority communities will be in an uproar. A city like Detroit is a power keg waiting to explode. On top of the economic depression of the area, could you imagine if the black community of Detroit rioted! This could happen in numerous cities around the country. Of course, whites will flee or those that are gun owners will fight. We could have race riots. Also, don’t forget about the illegals taking over the southern parts of the country. We could have race riots because of the illegals.

Vincent

December 30, 11:51 am | [comment link]
20. Frank Fuller wrote:

You guys are missing the bet here, though.  Republic of Texas (however large) = New North American Province in Anglicanism, free and clear. 

Yeehaw!

December 30, 12:46 pm | [comment link]
21. Byzantine wrote:

The US is an experiment in propositional nationhood, and it is a time-limited one.  The federal government and its client states and municipalities have trillions of dollars in unfunded obligations that are now starting to come due.  Either voters agree to cut their own entitlements, dramatically scale back overseas obligations and the size and scope of government, or let the government inflate.  They are going to choose inflation, which is a finite process.  Eventually, when L/Cpl. Jones finds his paycheck won’t buy him much more than a six-pack, he and his buddies are going to start submitting applications to the highest bidder instead and that will be the end of the US central government.  Blackwater is already attracting the best junior grade officers and NCO’s.

Once the remaining troops have to resort to selling ammo and material on the black market to feed their families, the US, like the USSR, will break up along the fault lines which are already apparent.

December 30, 12:52 pm | [comment link]
22. Juandeveras wrote:

One might also include the ramping up of violence all across formerly-quiet Mexico. These guys are getting a lot of practice at exercising mayhem on a very large scale.

December 30, 12:56 pm | [comment link]
23. Cennydd wrote:

It ain’t gonna happen, folks!  Americans aren’t that stupid!

December 30, 12:58 pm | [comment link]
24. Sherri2 wrote:

By all means, let’s buy into the propaganda.

December 30, 1:03 pm | [comment link]
25. perpetuaofcarthage wrote:

Hi Vincent Lerins and Byzantine,
I am glad to see you are taking this seriously. Perpetua of Carthage that connected Panarin’s idea of the break-up of the USA with the break-up of US national identity and Huntington’s book Who Are We?. She originally just posted Panirin’s map, but now she has the post updated to include the map from Nine Nations of North America.
So I am wondering, how do each of you think the map might split in a break-up?

December 30, 1:11 pm | [comment link]
26. Juandeveras wrote:

Not to change the subject but I think the Brit. “bishops” who want to detach the church from the state there are dealing with a potentially far more complex issue than simply our revisionist view of the separation of church and state: one might recall it was Jefferson’s letter to the Rhode Island ministers which stated ” we should protect the garden of the church from the wilderness of the state” - not exactly what this issue has devolved into.

December 30, 1:25 pm | [comment link]
27. Byzantine wrote:

Southwest, Northwest, Northern Midwest, Northeast, Mid-Atantic/Midwest, South, South Florida, Alaska, Hawaii.

Re:  #22 - yes.  Mexico is becoming a failed state, and that violence is already spilling over into US territory, with cross-border kidnappings a heavily suppressed story in the media.

A parallell nation is being established on US soil, one with its own banks, public transit, and chambers of commerce.  In the very near future, its umbrella of services will expand to protection and social welfare.  Only a few of us in the South and West notice this.  For everybody else, it is completely off the radar.

December 30, 1:26 pm | [comment link]
28. Juandeveras wrote:

To 27: You are referring to the Hispanic parallel nation ?  One must also recognize that the MEChA programs being fostered and paid for by the Ford Foundation and offerred in all the public high schools and major college campuses foster a Mexican First attitude among the young especially in the Southwest - they are taught that this is really a country called Aztlan; that it was stolen from Mexico by the whites in the 1800’s ( not true - it was purchased ) - the attitudes are worst toward whites, in my opinion, among Hispanic women 16-30 and slightly less so among the young Hispanic men - I am white and speak Spanish. The young Hispanic women stole all they could from a congregate care facility’s mostly white female population where my wife was employed recently in So. Calif.  Note: there is a huge effort made by Filipinos working as caregivers for Americans to use multiple ruses to divest the people they care for from their property and real estate. I think that the SEIU’s effort to unionize all the caregivers around the country should make that union accountable for all the stealing that is done by their union members ( this may not be PC but it is quite accurate ).

December 30, 2:03 pm | [comment link]
29. Byzantine wrote:

Juan,

Thanks for your reply and yes, that’s what I’m talking about.  As you might agree, “Hispanic” is a hopelessly unworkable category, because what we are actually talking about are indigenous Central Americans, not people descended from Continental Spain.

December 30, 2:20 pm | [comment link]
30. Juandeveras wrote:

A final comment: LA Police Chief Bratton symbolizes a lot of what is wrong, but he’s a Dem so the LA Times and alleged Mayor Antonio Villa ( formerly Villaraigosa before his wife left him ) give him a pass. He simultaneously looks the other way when illegal aliens are the subject ( it’s a “sanctuary” city - Bp. Bruno thinks it’s very cool ) and then badmouths his own officers who were sent to MacArthur Park last year to quell a riot deliberately set up to taunt the police. People were throwing glass bottles filled with frozen water and urine from third story windows at said police. Of course the MSM was there in force and deliberately got in the way of the cops. The Chief and the city settled recently for $14 million of taxpayer money. Meanwhile, LA is left with millions of illegal aliens with no car insurance, no respect for US law, posing as licensed general contractors when they have no license, and further adding to the coarsening of our culture. If you go to the emergency room at UCLA or LA County General, the doctors refuse to ask if the patients are citizens, so these places become the doctor-of-choice for said illegal aliens - for free. The Mexican government is never held to account and laughs all the way to the bank. Try to go acroos the border to Mexico without a visa - you will be thrown in jail and they key thrown away.  I lived in Mexico in 1957-9 during high school. The population of Mexico City was 2-3,000,000 at that time. That city is now over 30,000,000 people. If we want the same thing to happen here, then simply let things continue.

December 30, 2:23 pm | [comment link]
31. Juandeveras wrote:

To 29: “Hispanic” areas refer pretty much to everything south of the Mason Dixon Line inside the US all the way to Argentina. Look up the programming for Univision and Telemundo ( the Hispanic TV networks). The various cultures within that demographic may vary, but they are all “Hispanic”.

December 30, 2:29 pm | [comment link]
32. libraryjim wrote:

Cennydd wrote:
It ain’t gonna happen, folks!  Americans aren’t that stupid!

I don’t think the politicians share your view! wink

December 30, 2:38 pm | [comment link]
33. Vincent Lerins wrote:

#25 1928

I haven’t studied this matter in depth, so I really don’t know. I’ll defer to the researchers and their opinions. However, I do agree that big states like California and Texas will form separate countries around themselves. I’m not sure about the southern “Dixie” states like Georgia and Alabama going with Mexico. I wonder if large cities would form their own countries like Monaco or Vatican city? There are so many wildcards, that’s its hard to know with accuracy how the realignment would take place. For instance, I can see the New England states forming a country. But, you have a strong independence streak in New Hampshire where members of a Libertarian liberty group have been pushing for people to settle in New Hampshire. This has been going on for over 3 years. There also have been bills in the NH legislature to secede from the Union. You also have ethnic and racial issues as well. Black, White and Latino separatists groups are going to come to the forefront and influence realignments. Will we have countries that will become racial segregated?

Would the federal government in an effort to keep the union together, label those actively seeking to break away from the union, terrorists?

Vincent

December 30, 4:03 pm | [comment link]
34. Irenaeus wrote:

Igor Panarin offers some of the silliest predictions about the United States that I’ve ever seen. The 50 U.S. states form a more closely integrated unit than ever before. Far more closely integrated than they were just four decades ago.

Put Panarin’s regional break-up fantasy where it belongs: in the Soviet Nostalgia file.

PS: Igor Panarin is an anagram of ROARING PAIN. Roaring silly pain.

December 30, 4:55 pm | [comment link]
35. Byzantine wrote:

#33,

’m not sure about the southern “Dixie” states like Georgia and Alabama going with Mexico.

If it’s been 10 years since you’ve been to Atlanta, you will be shocked.

December 30, 5:24 pm | [comment link]
36. libraryjim wrote:

That is the reason Mexico won’t stop the illegal immigration. They are trying for the ‘reconquista’ of the Southern States formerly belonging to various Spanish and Mexican rulers.

December 30, 8:51 pm | [comment link]
37. Choir Stall wrote:

We will NEVAH Surrender. Nevah!
Bring it on! America might loathe it’s own oddballs and outliers, but when threatened we pull together instantly. That pack mentality sent George III, George IV, Santa Anna, Hitler, and Hirohito packing their kicked arses back from whence they came.

December 30, 10:16 pm | [comment link]
38. Cennydd wrote:

Choir Stall, that’s what I meant when I said it ain’t gonna happen.

December 31, 1:08 am | [comment link]
39. Juandeveras wrote:

Panarin was interviewed in April on http://www.ruvr.ru ( Voice of Russia ). His schtick is “information war”. In the dialogue he seems to relish the idea of advancing the cause of his country at the expense of ours - and suggests Russia is about to spend a lot of money in an attempt to propagandize us via the internet.

December 31, 5:13 am | [comment link]
40. Sherri2 wrote:

libraryjim, pardon me, but the reconquista idea seems very silly. Where I live, deep in Georgia, our Hispanic neighbors are a valued part of our community. It is unjust to suggest they are here to foment revolution.

As for this “Russian professor” - what this is is an example of the sad return of the Soviet way of doing business in the USSR. If you want to get worked up about it, get worked up about the fact that freedom has not lasted long for the peoples of Russia. And spare some anxiety for their near neighbors. Putin has ambitions.

December 31, 10:29 am | [comment link]
41. libraryjim wrote:

Sherri2,

I appreciate that, too. And in fact, it is silly in Florida as well, with so many of the Hispanic population being Cuban with no desire to return to that political reality.

However, friends of mine in border states—Texas, Arizona, California, etc.—tell me the reconquista movement is VERY real among the illegals and some ‘green card’ workers there.

December 31, 10:44 am | [comment link]
42. Byzantine wrote:

That pack mentality sent George III, George IV, Santa Anna, Hitler, and Hirohito packing their kicked arses back from whence they came.

That pack consisted of overwhelmingly Protestant Christian Anglo-Saxons and Scot-Irish.  That center of gravity which built the US and its institutions is rapidly eroding.  And when MS-13 and other non-state militias start solidifying their hold in Virginia and California, you are going to find that pack mentality working in the other direction quicker than you can say blood is thicker than water.

Sherri2,

Could you elaborate more on your experience?  I also live in Georgia and the Hispanic community, while mostly hardworking (they also have very high rates of social pathology), could hardly be less assimilated.  Also, there is a very sharp distinction between Hispanics who are descendants of the continental Spaniards, such as the Cuban emigres, and people who are basically indigenous Central Americans.

December 31, 11:09 am | [comment link]
43. David Fischler wrote:

In other news, aliens attack Toledo, Elvis is found living with Jimmy Hoffa, Angelina Jolie gives birth to a love baby fathered by Harry Reid, Ralph Nader announces he will run for president in 2012 as a Republican, General Motors patents the transporter beam as a substitute for the Cadillac, and Vladimir Putin declares himself a champion of free speech and fair and open elections.

December 31, 11:31 am | [comment link]
44. Vincent Lerins wrote:

For those who think the Russian professor is a quack, here’s a new flash for you…..

This is all by design!

I hate to break the news to you but unfortunately the USA as we have known it economically is OVER. The internationalists are working on finishing off the country socially and politically. We are headed for a something much worse than the great depression. It’s all these factors that will lead to the possible breakup of the USA. This isn’t something Russia conjured to scare Americans. In fact, Panarin doesn’t want the breakup to happen because it would be bad for Russia. You should find his interviews online and listen to what he has to say and get the whole story.

My advice for people would be to buy gold and silver related assets. Buy storable food and water for you and your family. Buy firearms to protect your property and families.  But, most importantly, make sure you have a right relationship with Jesus Christ! You can all the gold, grub and guns you want, but without Jesus you have nothing!

Hold on to your hats in 2009, its going to be one heck of a ride!

Vincent

December 31, 11:50 am | [comment link]
45. Sherri2 wrote:

Byzantine, there are many churches here that have both Hispanic and native-to-this-place members. Hispanic businessmen have long-standing relationships, and friendships, with non-Hispanics. Not to say that there are no problems - but, two for instances, when the local historic preservation commission tried to block an Hispanic resident from moving into “their” community, local natives came to his support. The same happened when another Hispanic citizen had difficulties with the utility company and was being given the brush off. Our schools are where most of the community-building is occurring, of course. Soccer is rapidly gaining in popularity grin, but it’s not just Hispanic kids playing, and there are Hispanic kids on the Football Team (that’s in caps in south Georgia). The Spanish classes at the high school are taught by a woman who came here from Mexico and she is hugely popular with all the kids. When you see kids out, you don’t see white kids over here, black kids over there, Hispanic kids out yonder - you see lots of mixed groups. Which makes my heart feel good. This is true not just in my community, but in our larger neighbor to the southwest. So I’m speaking from local experience, but a good bit of it.

December 31, 11:51 am | [comment link]
46. Juandeveras wrote:

Sherri2: What you describe was 20 years ago in So. Calif. - the Southeast have yet to experience the full impact.  The illegals have a different ethic - ie. they came illegally, live here illegally and therefore there is an inherent coarsening of the legal system - they do not live under our set of laws - and certain laws are simply not enforced. There is a double standard: pretend you are a cop in Beverly Hills. You pull over a white guy with defective plates. You give the white guy a ticket. If it’s an illegal Hispanic guy driving without either insurance or current plates, you let him go rather than go through the paperwork. I’m not making this up. I know such Hispanic guys who have told me this. If an illegal commits murder, he runs across the border, knowing Mexico will generally not extradite him. Hispanics of U.S. descent are somewhat closer to what you describe in Georgia. Also, when the ratio of Hispanics to whites increases, the macho-arrogant-rude attitude increases toward whites. Wait and see. Cubans and people from Columbia etc. are one thing. They are mostly of European descent. People from Mexico and Central America generally have a more Indian/Aztec/Inca derivation, are very hard-headed and stubborn, are less educated.

December 31, 2:15 pm | [comment link]
47. perpetuaofcarthage wrote:

Listen to the people from California. We are sharing our experience.

30 years ago, we thought we were being gracious and welcoming. Now the majority of the children in the public schools are Hispanic. They identify more with Hispanic culture and Hispanic peoples. And they have been taught by many of their public school teachers a history of the USA that emphasizes white corruption and racism. I an easily imagine that in the future, the voting majority in California would favor affiliation with Mexico over affiliation with the East Coast of the USA.

At the same time, in our elite public universities, the majority is increasingly Asian, and primarily Chinese. (Notice that the Secretary of Energy appointed by Obama is a Chinese man from California.) Many of the people I know who are of Chinese background are planning to retire in China and collect and spend there Social Security and other Retirement payments there. Many have already been buying homes there. They say China is generally cheaper and especially there is cheaper,better home nursing care.

December 31, 2:55 pm | [comment link]
48. Sherri2 wrote:

We’ll see. But as for the comment that Hispanics who commit murder simply run across the boarder ... that’s a little harder to do from Georgia. grin I also wonder - if things got worse instead of better,  how much might that be due to an unwillingness to make connections in the native population? I can’t partake of the alarm this man hopes to inspire. I remember reading not that many years ago that the South was going to become an all-black country. That one hasn’t happened either.  And to those who are alarmed - don’t you think we all have an opportunity to influence our national future?

December 31, 3:09 pm | [comment link]
49. Sherri2 wrote:

Hmm, make that “border” - sorry!

December 31, 3:14 pm | [comment link]
50. Byzantine wrote:

Sherri2,

The US nation is a land-based political model.  This model is incompatible with people who carry their nation with them wherever they go.  To use another example, I can show you entire neighborhoods in metro Atlanta that have gone Sikh.  Now, these are very courteous, industrious people, but you had better believe that your sons are not going to date their daughters, much less marry and have children by them.

The idea that people are interchangeable cogs who can be taken up and sat down wherever the Chamber of Commerce needs them is going to be in for some serious testing.

December 31, 3:23 pm | [comment link]
51. Juandeveras wrote:

Sherri2 - Remember the Mexican-born Marine who killed his American wife in your state, burned her body in the back yard and was found months later in Mexico ? He didn’t have much trouble getting there. You must understand these people do not assimilate. $16 billion in U.S. “foreign aid” comes via Western Union from the U.S. annually ( less this year ). Come to L.A. sometime. There are 125 languages represented within the L.A. Unified School District - the majority non-English-speaking. This is not Atlanta. Most homes in central L.A. pooere districts have concertina wire fences around them. The Hispanics ( my bilingual friend who teaches in the downtown L.A. district told me this two days ago ) are now leaving central L.A. and moving to the suburbs. Guess where they are headed ?

December 31, 3:34 pm | [comment link]
52. Sherri2 wrote:

You sound like you are talking about the plague, Juandeveras and Byzantine. And you sound, to anyone who has read much American history, like the people who put rings around the Polish immigrants, the Irish immigrants, the first generation of Chinese immigrants. Each wave of immigrants experienced years of ghetto-ization. Whether people assimilate or not is at least partly dependent on whether the surrounding culture will welcome them. It is also a function of time.

December 31, 5:46 pm | [comment link]
53. Sherri2 wrote:

Juandeveras (#51), that incident happened in North Carolina, not Georgia. I assume it was widely publicized in part because it was rare. He’s hardly the first criminal who has managed to leave the country, regardless of nationality.

December 31, 6:31 pm | [comment link]
54. libraryjim wrote:

PS to the earlier comments about Florida:
My dad who lives in South Florida, has repeatedly phoned me with news about how Hispanics are ‘taking over’ his neighborhood. One house on his block has about 30 people living in it (small 3 bedroom house) and parents have to be careful about their children being greeted by the site of the men urinating in the yard.

My sister (according to my dad) is constantly being harassed when she walks her dog or washes her car.

And he is picketing every Saturday trying to get a day labor agency shut down because they cater solely to illegal aliens getting day jobs.  (They tried a ‘sting’ apparently, sending ‘Anglos’ in for service, only to have them ‘shown the door’, while hispanics were happily shown the list of jobs.) And, yes, they have documentation that many of the ‘workers’ do not have paperwork granting worker status.

The problem is that the agency (again, apparently) makes heavy campaign contributions to the incumbent mayor and city council making enforcement unlikely.  Anyone who runs against them don’t have a chance and are heavily outspent.

A homemade video report on the protests can be found at this site. A news article can be found here.

December 31, 11:39 pm | [comment link]
55. libraryjim wrote:

Can you stand one more video on this topic, from a former police officer in that town: Ex-Jupiter Lawman exposes illegal immigration policies. Lots of other links there, too.

December 31, 11:48 pm | [comment link]
56. Juandeveras wrote:

Sherri2: [compiled Rep. Steve King (R) Iowa - WorldNetDaily 2008]
Illegal aliens:
Murder 12 Americans daily
Kill 13 Americans daily from drunk driving
Victimize 8 American children per day in sexual abuse situations
Of 55,322 studied in a GAO report issued in 2003:
They represented 459,614 total arrests
They represented 700,000 criminal offenses
36% had been arrested at least 5 times prior
This is the dark side of the illegal alien situation.

January 1, 1:40 am | [comment link]
57. Irenaeus wrote:

Sorry to see this thread on the verge of becoming a wingnut spittoon.

January 1, 2:01 am | [comment link]
58. libraryjim wrote:

Don’t criticize unless you’ve lived it, as my dad is. Illegal immigration is a crime, health and safety problem in areas where it runs unchecked. Yes, many illegals keep under the radar and try to live clean lives (apart from the fact that being here illegally makes them criminals by choice).  But there are those who are here because the US system gives them options for criminal activity unmatched in their homelands.  And they are becoming bolder by the day.

But you are right, we are off topic (but not by much).

January 1, 2:08 am | [comment link]
59. Juandeveras wrote:

To 57: I was not aware that dismissiveness was next to godliness.

January 1, 2:08 am | [comment link]
60. Katherine wrote:

How pleasant to visit a thread on politics in which David Fischler and Irenaeus are in agreement!  Me, too.  We have our problems, and they aren’t small, but I don’t see our collapse as imminent.  I do see worrying signs of our systems being changed, with the best of intentions, of course, but you-know-what is paved with good intentions.

January 1, 3:15 am | [comment link]
61. Juandeveras wrote:

“Best of Intentions” - a song by Travis Tritt seen on Youtube. I think I’d rather have a New Year’s Resolution than a New Year’s Intention

January 1, 4:01 am | [comment link]
62. libraryjim wrote:

Katherine, we are not in disagreement.  Some of us are merely pointing out that there are factions at work in the US who want to see us divide.

Hopefully, with God’s blessings, that will not happen. May he send another great revival on this land.

January 1, 12:39 pm | [comment link]
63. perpetuaofcarthage wrote:

57. Irenaeus wrote:
Sorry to see this thread on the verge of becoming a wingnut spittoon.

 
Dear Irenaeus, whom I adore for his hilarious Revisionist Dictionary, please explain where you see the “Wingnut spittoon” on this thread.

Even in San Francisco, the voters have become outraged over the excesses of the sanctuary city in action.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/20/MNK011MAFR.DTL

Edwin Ramos, now 21, is being held on three counts of murder in the June 22 deaths of Tony Bologna, 48, and his sons Michael, 20, and Matthew, 16. They were shot near their home in the Excelsior district when Tony Bologna, driving home from a family picnic, briefly blocked the gunman’s car from completing a left turn down a narrow street, police say.

Ramos, a native of El Salvador whom prosecutors say is a member of a violent street gang, was found guilty of two felonies as a juvenile - a gang-related assault on a Muni passenger and the attempted robbery of a pregnant woman - according to authorities familiar with his background.

In neither instance did officials with the city’s Juvenile Probation Department alert federal immigration authorities, because it was the city agency’s policy not to consider immigration status when deciding how to deal with an offender. Had city officials investigated, they would have found that Ramos lacked legal status to remain in the United States.

January 1, 2:23 pm | [comment link]
64. Juandeveras wrote:

#52 - Sherry2: 
“You sound like you are talking about the plague ......rings around immigrants…” etc.
Your referenced immigrant groups all, if my reading of history is correct,  came legally - through the front door as it were.  Bleeding heart words such as “ghetto-ization” etc. do not apply here.  This is a tearing-down of the fabric of America as a result of the toleration of millions of illegal acts.

January 1, 6:08 pm | [comment link]
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