Note to Damien:

There is an Episcopal Church that is part of the world wide Anglican Communion.

There is now ANOTHER bunch of folks gathering under the ACNA calling itself “An Anglican Church” ... another in a long line of Anglican Separatist Movements over the years. (Anglicans Online has quite a comprehensive list: http://anglicansonline.org/communion/nic.html)

Note to Susan: Denial won’t make this go away!

An Anglican Separatist Movement not to be overlooked is the Methodist Church.

I still find it curious that in its dominant American expression—the UMC—it has switched places with TEC in the liberal-conservative spectrum—as it now occupies, at least on one view, a position to the right of TEC.

Comment deleted by elf.

There is an Episcopal Church that is part of the world narrow Anglican Communion.

Contrary to Susan Russell (#1), the formation of the ACNA is something unprecedented in North American Anglican history, both in its large scale and in its reversal of the direction of ever greater fragmentation that has sadly marked “separatist” Anglican groups in the past.  The ACNA is showing an impressive ability to draw together various separate Anglican groups as different as the old ultra low-church REC and the three Anglo-Catholic ex-TEC dioceses that staunchly opposed WO.  And this new province in formation simply dwarfs in significane the formation of the REC back in 1873 when Bishop Cummins left the PECUSA (but of course didn’t take the bulk of his diocese with him).  Likewise it far exceeds in scope and dynamism the various high church “continuing” Anglican groups that sprang up after 1976 in protest against WO and the new BCP.

David Hein’s analogy to the rise of Methodism (#3) is more apt, but here also the emerging ACNA clearly has some very different characteristics than the Methodist movement did back in John Wesley’s day, including the strong support of international Anglican leaders from around the globe who actually represent the majority of the world’s practicing Anglicans..

But what I appreciated about Hein’s terse comment is that, contrary to Russell again, the Methodist Church proved that it was no flash in the pan, that had no staying power.  And of course, here in the US, the Methodists soon greatly outgrew the Episcopalians.  Time will tell how quickly, steadily, and extensively the new ACNA will grow, but speaking as an enthusiastic, partisan supporter of the ACNA, I think it’s future is very bright.  As bright as the promises of God, such as Christ’s assurance, “I will build my Church…”

David Handy+

Could I ask if TEC dioceses in Central and S. America are any less Anglicans in good standing than say dioceses in Virginia or California?  How is this different from individual ACNA dioceses or parishes affiliation through Nigeria, Uganda or S. Cone? 

If I were a Dominican Episcopalian I might be offended at Ms. Integrity’s suggestion of that I am not a legitimate, constituent part of the AC.

Unlike the Episcopal Church which is withering on the vine, the ACNA is adding members; May the Holy Spirit abundantly bless them.

No. 6: Yes: I was merely adding another example of an Anglican Separatist Movement to stir the pot a bit and get people thinking of some churches beyond the separatist groups of the seventies and so on, which, as Don Armentrout and other historians keep saying, never had more than 30,000 or so.

But I was also alluding more pointedly to Fr D. Stuart Dunnan’s comment just a few months ago that TEC ignores traditionalists at Episcopalians’ peril—cf. the Methodists ca. 1800, I believe he said (though I don’t have his article from TLC—right?—in front of me).

Whether anything about that analogy is worth thinking about I then left to readers and fellow posters to work out—else what’s a blog for?

I think that TEC is going to have to get used to the fact that the ACNA is here to stay.

Hilarious quote from Thompson:

Maybe it’s my Roman Catholic ignorance, but this strikes me as stretching the definition of “Communion” just a tad. How lucky that the Anglican Communion is headed by an intellectual of the stature of Dr Williams. He’ll sort it out! Indeed, watching him closely in the heat of debate, I’ve come to the conclusion that he’s the most decisive Anglican statesman since the Rev Timothy Farthing.

NRA - The marriage of convenience between Catholics and Protestants (often Calvinists) in the ACNA will soon splinter.  Would be better if these two competing visions of Anglicanism should coalesce into separate bodies, since the reason for the forced-from-above Elizabethan settlement no longer exist.

rob k (#12),

You’re not the first to predict that the evangelical, low-church types and the catholic, high church types will soon go their separate ways.  And I’m sure you won’t be the last.

I’m not claiming any prophetic word from the Lord about that, but I remain hopeful that we’ll be able to make a true marriage out of the two seemingly incompatible movements.  For the truth is, we need each other, and both sides need the charismatic element as well.

For to be fully biblical, fully evangelical, and fully catholic, the ACNA must be able to incorporate the best elements of all three dimensions of the Christian faith and life.  But you’re quite right that this must be done on the basis of genuine theological convergence for the sake of the truth and not mere compromise for the sake of peace and temporary political necessity, since in our post-Constantinian social setting, we no longer have the power and interests of the secular state forcing both sides to co-exist peacefully.  And I, for one, see that liberation from domination by the state and its interests primarily as a gift and a great blessing, rather than as a curse.

Time will tell who’s right about the future of the ACNA.  But I’ll grant you this, rob.  Withouth divine intervention and lots of grace being extended on all sides to each other, this experiment in boldly trying to create a whole new kind of Anglicanism in North America is sure to fail.  If you think it’s going to take a miracle for this thing to work, I’d have to agree with you.

But then, I believe God is still in the miracle-working business.

After all, some marriages of convenience actually evolve into the real thing.  Witness the famous case of C. S. Lewis and Joy Davidson.

David Handy+

Thanks, David (NRA) for your reply.  You make a good case for ACNA.  But I’m don’t see whey each strain “needs” the other, beyond the obvious fact that there is strength in numbers.  And Anglo-Catholicism would probably be more negatively affected by loss of that strength in numbers, at the “practical” level than would be the
evangelicals.  And, they have at times shown themselves to be as fractious as true Protestants.  Continued separation or not, though, all of us need to recognize each other as Christian people (and that includes those within TEC that we disagree, in some way or another, with.