They speak of grace, but act in a legalistic manner by referring everything to General Convention.  They question the authority of the primates but hold up a sub-committee report that reflects favorably on them - a report which the primates rejected.

They seem to want to be Anglican without the restrictions that Anglican polity makes on them.  They do not understand that to be part of a communion means to stop when the rest of the communion says “Stop.”

They talk of listening - when will they start?

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

So:

Neither the Executive Council, the Presiding Bishop, nor the House of Bishops can give binding interpretations of General Convention resolutions nor make an “unequivocal common commitment” to denying future decisions by dioceses or General Convention

this means that TEC can never enter into any binding agreement.  Any General Convention resolution can be overturned by the next GC, or just simply ignored.  +KJS should therefor not be treated as a primate, since she has no authority to sign onto, or agree to anything at all.

That title is rich, isn’t it.  The TEC is like a rebellious teenager committed to living in the house but who refuses to live by house rules.

The Holy Spirit makes us do everything we do.  So there.  And, besides, we wov you thissssss much!  So you can’t give us the boot.  (Do you want to place a bet on that?)

What a bunch of nonsense.
This comes across as saying “please believe us, we really really REALLY love all other Anglicans, but we’re going to do what we d*mn well please.”

Um, what about love being demonstrated by actions?  This is all fluff words.  No commitment to change or to ACT based on what has been heard.

And how many news posts have there been in the last few days announcing this or that diocese is going to go ahead and authorize SSU blessings?  Hardly the actions of a group that values “Common life in the Communion”.

Assertions of authority met by counter-assertions of polity are not likely to lead to the reconciliation we seek. As important as we hold our polity, the questions before us now are fundamentally relational. Our salvation is not in law but in the grace of God in Jesus Christ our Savior; so too with our relationships as Anglicans.

I find this so annoying as to be bad for my health.  How can you define problems as relational when the only solution you will accept is “see it my way.”  How can you claim to seek reconciliation when the only thing you will accept is “see it my way.”  And now will you finally discard the Law, and define grace as “see it my way.”?

More sickness….

At various times in our history, we have struggled to embrace people who have historically been marginalized.

So now the “see it my way” crowd is preaching to Africa?  Has any population on the PLANET been marginalized more than those to whom this message is directed?  Yet TEC is the superior one?  What a slippery slope.

  The advice of the larger community will continue to find reflection in the actions we take.

What???  When??? I consider myself pretty up to speed on HOB communications and actions, when, exactly, did ANYTHING they do reflect the opinions, desires, or needs of the “larger community?”  This is simply a boldfaced lie, the worst kind of lie, spoken in factual-ese.
You know, the rest of the Communion needs to make sure they are good and separated from TEC before creating any sort of Anglican Covenant.  We would only poison their process.

(Having trouble) KTF….mrb

Amusing that the Lambeth 2008 website says: “At the 2008 Lambeth Conference, a particular focus will be the bishop as enabler and encourager of God’s people in mission.  How can bishops be equipped for their particular tasks of leadership in the church?”

Looks like in TEC, the answer is: they can’t.

“We can promise that our engagement with the churches of the Anglican Communion and our deep and sincere listening will continue.”

I guess lawsuits are a form of “engagement”?  Those interrogatories are your “deep and sincere listening”?

Liars all…..

I guess lawsuits are a form of “engagement”?  Those interrogatories are your “deep and sincere listening”?

Ouch Ralph.  That one made me laugh.  But it is way too close to the truth to be really funny.  Unfortunately you nailed it.

#3 - ..and insists they alone possess all knowledge/goodness.  Back when I was doing youth ministry (Early Jurassic Period), we used to tell parents that many teens practiced a ‘self-centered altruism.’  They would take the last soda from the refrigerator without asking, but then insist that the can be recycled.  The hierarchy of TEC and particularly its interaction with the rest of the Communion seems to parallel this state of mind.  TEC’s leadership, like many sullen teenagers, think of themselves as doing a good thing and the rest of us are clueless.

After reading this article, I’m afraid I need to keep a flight emergency bag close by me!

They need to continue in their reading of Ephesians.
11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Living as Children of Light
17So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.

20You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. 21Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

25Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26"In your anger do not sin”[d]: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27and do not give the devil a foothold. 28He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.

29Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

We need to be kind and forgiving, but we must also be uncompromising in the truth.

“The Episcopal Church’s Commitment to Common Life in the Anglican Communion”

(Long Version) - TECUSA is committed to the common life in the Anglican Communion so long as it doesn’t interefer with what we want to do.

(Short Version) - None

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

Oh, for Heaven’s sake, TEC, when do you stop talking? Bag your bags and be gone. Soonest ended, soonest mended, and all that. This pious chatter is all threat and no action, for they fear, quite rightly, that action means the end of their leverage, so they are that which threatens and threatens and never leaves like the night trees that scrape against your window in the wind. Begone! Let us exorcize this nightmare and get on with life.
LM

“can give binding interpretations”  Can’t you simply let your Yes be Yes and your No be No?  You don’t need a binding interpretation.  All that has ever been needed is for each bishop in his/her diocese to say is “We are not doing this.”  There is all the power in the world to do this.  They do not want to and it is that simple.  Legalism says, “There must be enforcement”, and that is so in the secular world.  But we do not have to live in that world.  No, TEC does not, and will not conform to the larger Communion, and the Communion should cast them out.

After September this year, when dioceses, parishes and individuals choose to remain Anglican and make their elections for the episcopal leadership of traditional/orthodox Anglican bishops outside of ECUSA, how is ECUSA going to explain this to the large body of traditional Anglicans still remaining in ECUSA?

How is ECUSA going to maintain it’s charade, retain it’s legitimacy as a member of the Church catholic?

ECUSA is becoming ever and ever more identified with secular issues.  How many traditional Episcopalians identify with ECUSA on the basis of secular issues and place secularism on an equal or even on a higher level that Scriptural and traditional Anglicanism?

I think that when there is a realization of what ECUSA’s leadership has done and what it could have avoided by striving to work with the Anglican Communion, that there is going to be an outburst of hurt and anger among ECUSA’s ‘rank and file’ laity and clergy.

Br. Michael
as we have seen so often in the past, when presented with a statement by the Anglican Communion and asked “Do you agree with this?” The answer is a resounding “YES” followed by a whispered “(YES) we agree to look it over, talk it to death and then do our own thing anyway”.

“requests made by the Primates from Dar es Salaam in February, 2007”

it appears to me that this statement was made after the general convention of 2006.  The convention did meet and failed to make any concessions, so the primates made their statements.

did I miss something?

20, No. You give an accurate summary.

The storm clouds are gathering and I think we are in for heavy seas and a hard blow.  After Sept. the storm will hit when parishes and diocese of TEC will have to determine to stay with the faith once received or walk apart with a differant faith and be Anglican or TEC

Polity? Polity? Wherefore art thou, Polity?

Our salvation is not in law?

And here I thought the Canons were dispositive.

All of us are bound together irrevocably into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit through the waters of Baptism?

Huh?
At what point in time did it suddenly become the doctrine of the Episcopal Church that baptism is irrevocable and makes us one? So now we cannot fall away?
All these years I thought that one had to follow Jesus, read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest everything that He did and taught, and follow Him to the end.
Whatever became of “If you love me, keep my commandments”? All that time studying, praying, partaking of the Eucharist, repenting—who knew?
What evidence is provided that the spirit which is guiding this collection of persons is the Holy Spirit? Do the tests provided for us in the New Testament certify and demonstrate that the spirit on which they rely is the right one? Have they tried this spirit? Does this spirit witness to the name of Jesus?
Oops. GC 2006 could not name the name of Jesus. Sorry. Wrong spirit.
The Spirit of Truth, we are told, will always witness and point to Jesus, because the Holy Spirit is the one which Jesus sends. He warned us about false Christs and false prophets. Yes, He did. You could look it up.
Oops. Can’t do that either. The Bible is misogynistic and oppressive, according to GC 2006.
Sorry. Almost typed GC 200666 there. Got a little excited.

This is bad theology. The good thing is that is not written in Griswold doublespeak. These persons have gone right out to the end of the limb and sawed the limb off the tree, to use an old simile.

The limb may very well fall from the tree before September, folks.

Push will come to shove in September. Tell me, where do you think TEC will go afterwards? What will become of it? It controls fortunes. What happens to the money? The buildings? Where will all those trembling liberals go? Where CAN they go?Will it simply continue to wither until the vine hangs like a frozen clematis in the winter wind? No one seems to be addressing the question, “And then what?” We are looking at a major and almost unparalleled collapse or a powerful institution. How do such giants die, and what happens to their bones? LM

Let’s put some more of Ephesians’ quotes in to balance KJS’s selection.
...................................................................................
Eph 4:11-14

11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,

12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,

13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;

14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.

Eph 4:22-24

22 Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts,

23 and be renewed in the spirit of your minds,

24 and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

Eph 5:8-11

8 walk as children of light

9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true),

10 and try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.

11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness

Eph 5:15-18

15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise,

16 making the most of the time, because the days are evil.

17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.

Peace,
Barry

You know, I wish Father Harmon would address some of the questions I have asked, esp. the one above.How do giants die and what happens to their bones? Kendall, what will become of TEC? Will it become a shadow, a social service organization of a smallish sort, or will it simply disappear? Surely not the latter? Is there a critical mass, below which congregants simply stop going to a denomination?
And will its demise, whatever it is, have any effect on the larger America? Or is this a tempest in a font which larger America will simply never notice? Is that where the issue is now, in fact, a tiny furor about which America cares precious little? LM

Kendall, we talk and talk. But are we in reality impotent? Is no action possible? Are we just noisy spectators in a provincial bull ring? LM

Larry,

I always enjoy your erudite posts.  Keep up the great work and it would be nice to see a comprehensive treatment of this debacle and some speculations on what happens next.

#28. You are very kind. But I suspect you are more or less alone. Still, I appreciate you comment. Larry

Kendall, are you out there? Will you attempt a crystal ball reading? Our conversations here do not look to the future, and so we are blind, in a way.