It sounds so nice and warm…...

“Pink jackboots on your neck”, anyone?

DonGander

We’ll drive those pesky Christians our of our church any way we can!  Just may sure they leave the buildings and keep sending us the $$$

Did anyone point out to them that by their own admission, nothing binding can be passed in TEC without a GC?  I think the null and void rule is therefore null and void.

Oops! Didn’t they mean to say, “The Council passed Resolution NAC023 to bind dioceses with its heavy-handed interpretation, even though ‘neither the Executive Council, the Presiding Bishop, nor the House of Bishops can give binding interpretations of General Convention resolutions nor make “unequivocal common commitments” that would affect future decisions by dioceses…’”??

I’m sure that was just an innocent oversight.

Okay, let me see ... TEC can not do much with what the Primates request because that takes a GC to modify the cannons, but boy the Executive Committee suddenly has a lot of power to pass a NAC023 if it’s in their interest ...

Am I missing something ... 

How are diocese in the episcopal church created?
Under what authority?

At the close of the meeting, Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori congratulated the Council for engaging a variety of issues “faithfully and with clarity,”...

High fives and gladhands all around! Hugs, handshakes, and congratulations! We sure showed them , didn’t we?
meanwhile…

...recognizing the diversity of opinion that exists within the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion…

...which you have shown a willingness to stamp out at all costs…

...and the Anglican Communion…

blockquote

...which must be brought to the heel of TEC Polity.
Further,

She also noted that Council learned that there are sometimes other ways to cope with tough issues rather than legislation that can result in winners-and-losers situations…

but that these other ways must be avoided to make sure that we win while they lose. For instance

She observed that during the Parsippany meeting, members worked pastorally behind the scenes to achieve consensus on some issues

and this worked exceedingly well since the key dissenters were not part of the discussions, and the troublemakers were assured that our results would be discussed in plenary session before any public release of our statement.

And no, I did not

Read it all.

This was all I could take.

I guess the E.C. forgot that “TEC is best defined as a loose confederation of Dioceses.”  All of their actions of late have them scrambling to redefine the Episcopal Church in the most centralized and autocratic terms. No doubt, this is designed to bolster their future claims on Church property in the courts.

Historically, the hallmark of this Church from its beginning has been the broad and independent nature of its member dioceses. This has been true liturgically, theologically and administratively. (Does everyone recall the “local jurisdiction” argument put forth in support of VGR’s election and consents?)

We are not even close to being a centralized Church along the lines of the Roman Catholics.  By example, while a priest can be deposed by a Diocesan bishop, to my knowledge KJS and the folks at 815 have no such power or authority. I wonder how this could be, if in fact we are actually supposed to be accountable to the national Church?

I swear, i appears that this Church is getting more and more schizophrenic by the day.

We like authority, like some Primates, when it fits the end we desire. We don’t like authority, like the Arch of Cant or Executive Council, when it doesn’t fit the end we desire.

Either we are a church under authority or not. Executive council insisting that the diocese of this church continue to be what they have been for decades, under the authority that created them, is not such a horrible thing, really. We must have some order.

The Executive Council can threaten us all they want to, but I doubt very much that it will change things…...at least as far as our diocese is concerned.  I will vote this October as I did last December:  FOR the deletion of all things relating to the Episcopal Church from our diocesan constitution.

The church is no more than its dioceses hence, one can only presume, the Denis Canon.  This is like, as someone else pointed out, Microsoft purporting to change the corporate charter of Apple.  TEC has no claim to diocesan property.  This resolution is made up out of whole cloth.

I’ll tell you exactly what’s going on:  these folks are looking at reduced pensions, lower salaries, layoffs, less health benefits, facilities falling into disrepair, etc.  This is the move of desperate people.

The Windsor bishops need to respond.

The “null and void” declaration by the Executive Council seems like an amateurish legal maneuver intended to intimidate.  I doubt whether it would have any legal weight to help the liberals.  In contrast though, it may come back to bite them hard in their backsides.

How so?  Well, the mere assertion by one group that it has power over another group is merely that.  An assertion.  Either the state courts are inclined to go with the “church heirarchy” approach or they are inclined to go with the “neutral principles” approach.  If the former, then the EC’s statement adds nothing.  If the latter, then the EC’s statement is irrelevant.

Flip it around though.  Let’s say Rowan Williams really does have a backbone and TEC finally takes one step too far.  Suppose he retracts the blanket TEC invitations to Lambeth.  Suddenly, then, all of this amateurish bullying by Stacy Sauls & Co. can be turned back upon them.  They have been passing these sort of statements now for awhile.  Well the Preamble to TEC’s constitution defines very clearly just what bishops and dioceses are TEC bishops and dioceses.  If a bishop or dioceses is not in communion with Canterbury (and if we accept the general rule that invitations to Lambeth so defines that) then there would be a large number of formerly TEC bishops (like Sauls, Chane, Bruno, etc.) who would be trespassers on TEC property and who would NOT BE ELIGIBLE to be part of the real TEC General Convention.  And if Sauls & Co. would protest this, well they would be silenced by their very own amateurish advocacy statements.

Having recently watched (at my young daughter’s insistence) my favorite bad movie, I was reminded of two classic lines from Yul Brynner:

“So let it be written, so let it be done!” 
“I do not know your god, nor will I let your people go!”

(snicker)  I think they really mean it!

JamesW [#13], since you’re cross-posting your argument about hierarchy on this thread as well, here’s my response from the other thread again:

As far as the U.S. courts are concerned (which is what matters where property is concerned), your argument that the TEC hierarchy goes all the way to the ABC is likely to be a non-starter, for a variety of reasons.

In particular, it’s extremely unlikely that American courts would allow the fiat of an unelected, unaccountable ABC — appointed by the British ruling party with zero American representation (are those faint echoes of the Boston Tea Party I hear?) — to determine who owns the property of American parishes and dioceses.

See Bishop Duncan Needs Better Lawyers for more details from a legal perspective.

Vanderstar wrote that the Church’s membership is related to its “long history of supporting a woman’s right to make her own decisions regarding a pregnancy.”

And tell me, does this long tradition extend back, oh 30 years or so?  Heaven forbid we should hold a tradition stretching back 5,000 years as more valid. 

Bless them all Lord, and show them Your Way, as they are completely lost.  Amen.

mrb

I think there does remain some question as to which is the greater authority a diocese or the national church, when courts eventually come to rule.  Remember, dioceses existed in the country first and nine of them came together to later create the PECUSA.

Perhaps a large number of diocese should simply declare the TEc is Null & Void, anyone with a bell, book, & candle.

Article: Please read to clarify.
http://mcj.bloghorn.com/1725

The Great Charade:  The Denis Canon was never voted on and passed by two consecutive GCs.  It’s all a bluff or a fraud of the greatest kind on ECUSA.  But then again, I suspect TEC is now without “christian” leadership.  The pagans are running the show!
Peace,
Barry

“Episcopal Church dioceses that change their constitutions in an attempt to bypass the Church’s Constitution and Canons were warned . . . that their actions are ‘null and void.’”

Very different from flipping of scripture, which if done with sufficient flair can get you a seat on the Executive Council.