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A free floating commentary on culture, politics, economics, and religion based on a passionate commitment to the truth and a desire graciously to refute that which is contrary to it….
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This Sunday, the local Anglican church, Christ Our Savior, will hold services in its first permanent home in Old Torrance. The Rev. Dale Smith, a former Episcopal priest from South Pasadena, has led the church for more than a year.
"It's been a difficult time for more than 50 years during this gradual split," Smith said.
After 2003, he said, "We knew there were effectively two churches, one that believed the historic faith and one that didn't."
Read it all.
Filed under: * Anglican - Episcopal Anglican Church in North America (ACNA) Episcopal Church (TEC) TEC Conflicts TEC Conflicts: Los Angeles TEC Departing Parishes * Christian Life / Church Life Parish Ministry * Theology Anthropology Ethics / Moral Theology

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2. Pb wrote:
I guess that means that every human being should be ordained. The language appeared in 1976 at the same time Integrity came on the scene.The 1976 convention passed several gay friendly resolutions. August 11, 1:31 pm | [comment link] |
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3. Pb wrote:
Where do we find the basis to conclude that every human being is dignified. Scripture teaches otherwise. This has not been my experience. August 11, 2:01 pm | [comment link] |
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4. Creedal Episcopalian wrote:
Such was my thought. Dignity is not a natural human condition. Neither is it something that you can confer by ritual. |
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5. Already Gone wrote:
While I agree that the Baptismal Covenant’s new provisions have been grossly misused, as a Catholic I have to respectfully disagree with the view that not every human being has dignity. A human being’s dignity comes from the fact that they are created in the image and likeness of God, regardless of whether they act to conform to it. As the Catechism puts it: THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON |
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6. Creedal Episcopalian wrote:
I did not say that no human being had dignity. I said it was not a natural condition. Perhaps it would be more specific to say that dignity is not a natural attribute of a fallen human, but something that can perhaps only be achieved through god’s grace. That is not the same as professing as a postulate of baptism that every human being possesses it, even if only to some degree. |
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7. Already left wrote:
What jumped out at me was “the church “has come to understand more fully” as if anyone who breaks away just doesn’t get it - is not as enlightened, etc. Phoey. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, no matter how I or anyone else understands him. August 11, 3:11 pm | [comment link] |
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8. robroy wrote:
Dignity of every human being is only half of the story. The other half the TEO does its best to ignore:
blockquote |
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9. Northwest Bob wrote:
Although it has been sorely abused, the 1979 Prayer Book in general and the Baptismal Covenant in particular are not the cause of licentious behavior in TEc members. The question right before the “respect” question, directly addresses avoiding sinful behavior. NW Bob has always read the baptismal covenent in light of 1 Peter 2:11-17. You have to take the question about respect in context of the rest of the covenant and of Scripture. I posted this previously a long time ago. “What part of their baptismal vow do TEc not understand? See BCP p. 299. (Amplication from 1 Peter by NW Bob.) The respect passage is what they misuse as an excuse to behave as they please. The biblical view of respect is as a mechanism to win people over to Christianity, not to encourage people in sin. Celebrant: Will you persevere in resisting evil, and, whenever you fall into sin, repent and return to the Lord? 1 Peter 2:11-17 (NIV) |
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10. Northwest Bob wrote:
Two more applicable bits of scripture with regard to sinful behavior and respect: Romans 1:24-27 (NIV) 1 Peter 3:14-16 (NIV) |
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11. Todd Granger wrote:
I stand with Already Gone in respectfully disagreeing with the argument that dignity is not a “natural” human condition. The Collect for the Second Sunday after Christmas Day reads: O God, who wonderfully created, and yet more wonderfully restored, the dignity of human nature: Grant that we may share the divine life of him who humbled himself to share our humanity…. Included in the American Prayer Book for the first time in the 1979 revision, this collect was taken from the 1928 Proposed English Prayer Book. It is a translation of a prayer found in the Leonine and Gelasian Sacramentaries. The teaching that humans beings are endowed with dignity as a consequence of their being created in the image of God is not a revisionist one. It has deep biblical roots and is robustly attested in the teachings of the undivided Church. The fact that Episcopalian revisionists have distorted the teaching and put it to mischief is a mark of their heresy, not of the untruth of what they’ve distorted. August 11, 8:27 pm | [comment link] |
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12. priestwalter wrote:
Fr. Bonnell Spencer, OHC was one of the ‘constucters’ of the Baptismal Covenant as found in the ‘79 BCP. I was a member of OHC at the time he was involved. He wrote ‘Ye Are The Body’ and then late in life authored ‘God Who Dares Be Man’ (would have been better titled ‘God Who Dares Be Married!). Anyone who has read that book would understand where the theology found in the ‘Baptismal Covenant of the ‘79 BCP has it’s roots. August 11, 8:46 pm | [comment link] |
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13. JustOneVoice wrote:
Telling someone that their sinful actions are blessed is not respecting their dignity. August 11, 11:34 pm | [comment link] |
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There’s that pesky 1979 prayer book again. Does anyone know who specifically is responsible to that particular amendment to the Anglican liturgy?
August 11, 1:25 pm | [comment link]