Anglican Unscripted Episode 67

Posted by The_Elves

"This week your dynamic duo talk about George's surgery and the election of the new Primate of Tanzania. Kevin and Allan talk about South Carolina, San Joaquin, and the Witness Intimidation Accord. Peter Ould brings news of border crossing in England"

Filed under: * Anglican - EpiscopalEpiscopal Church (TEC)TEC ConflictsTEC Conflicts: South Carolina

Posted March 11, 2013 at 10:22 pm [Printer Friendly] [Print w/ comments]

1. BlueOntario wrote:

Beautiful. Get well, George!

March 12, 10:48 am | [comment link]
2. Blue Cat Man wrote:

Continued prayers for George’s complete healing. I always enjoy Allan Haley’s comments about legal matters. Glad to hear that TEc’s summary judgment against the Diocese of San Joaquin was denied.  We will continue to pray for the trial outcome. Interesting that TEC has decided on a federal injunction against Bishop Lawrence when there is a state injunction against TEC. What are they hoping for with this action??

March 12, 11:08 am | [comment link]
3. MichaelA wrote:

Glad to hear that Kevin and George are following up the issue of the disputed election of the Primate of Tanzania.  Its still not clear what has happened and where the rights and wrongs lie, but no doubt the truth will come out eventually.

March 12, 9:49 pm | [comment link]
4. MichaelA wrote:

Peter Ould says in the interview:

1. “Christ Church Fulwood, go back about 10 years… wanted to plant a church in the centre of Sheffield. The bishop at the time was not up to it.”

Errr, Peter?  What about the fact that the bishop in 2003 (+Jack Nicholls) was strongly liberal and didn’t like orthodox evangelical church plants?  Did you forget that little detail…?

2. “+Croft went to Christ Church Central and asked to regularise them on generous terms.  They said no, thank you, we don’t like the fact that there are some liberals in the church of england.”

Really Peter.  “Some liberals in the church of england”???  The liberals are either in charge of the Church of England, or those who are in charge openly pander to them.  Christ Church Central would have taken leave of their senses if they had voluntarily joined CofE in its current state - wouldn’t you agree?

3. “They didn’t want to be Church of England, which means they didn’t want to be Anglican”. 

No Peter, that is not correct at all.  There are Anglicans in England who are not part of the CofE.  They are not entitled to say or imply that they are part of the CofE (and I suspect they have no wish whatsoever to do so) but there is nothing to stop them calling themselves Anglican, anymore than Anglicans in the USA who are not part of TEC are prevented from using the term.

4. “The minister at Christ Church Walkley ... goes to Kenya and gets ordained by a Kenyan bishop”

Aren’t you leaving out a little detail, Peter+?  The Archbishop of Kenya. president of Gafcon, also took part in the ordination.  This wasn’t just a case of ‘find a bishop’ - this was deliberately policy endorsed by several of the largest provinces in the Anglican Communion.

5. “You do border crossing when the bishop is a heretic or the diocese is just teaching rampant nonsense constantly.”

True, but that dodges the issue of what is really happening here:  The mother church, Christ Church Central, was constituted as an Independent Anglican Church in 2003, due to the intransigence of a liberal CofE bishop who did not want it in his diocese.  If the new bishop now desires that Christ Church Central or any of the independent Anglican churches in England (and there seem to be quite a few) become part of the Church of England then it is incumbent on the CofE (all of it, not just the Diocese of Sheffield) to show that it is truly and irreovcably committed to orthodoxy.  That has obviously not occured, and therefore other Anglican bishops have to care for those independent Anglican congregations. 

The Gafcon statement relevantly says:

“We recognise the desirability of territorial jurisdiction for provinces and dioceses of the Anglican Communion, except in those areas where churches and leaders are denying the orthodox faith or are preventing its spread, and in a few areas for which overlapping jurisdictions are beneficial for historical or cultural reasons”

Even assuming that the Bishop of Sheffield is orthodox, Peter Ould is demanding that these independent Anglican congregations join the entire CofE, not just Dio Sheffield.  It is therefore legitimate for the congregations to ask searching questions about the direction of the entire CofE.

6. “Kevin Kallsen: Was this church an outreach of the Church in Kenya?
Peter Ould said: “In some senses it must be”

No Peter, please tell the full and accurate truth.  This church is NOT an outreach of the Church in Kenya.  It is a plant by a home-grown English independent Anglican church, which has sought ordination through Gafcon so as to maintain episcopal links with the rest of the Anglican Communion.

7. “Evangelical bishops [in the CofE] say they are infuriated by this”

Peter, I suggest you tell them to get over it.  There are independent Anglican congregations in England, that is fact.  They are not going to disappear, indeed there is likely to be more of them if they are serious about evangelism, and they are entitled to seek communion and fellowship with orthodox Anglicans overseas.

What your bishops can’t handle is the fact that the independents do not want to join your Church of England, because they do not trust it.  And they have good reason not to trust it - the CofE may be further back on the road, but it is still on the same road as TEC.

March 12, 10:24 pm | [comment link]
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