How incredibly sad.  And I do have to wonder that, underneath all of the affirmation for their act from their children, there won’t be a lot of unanswered questions and gnawing pain.  Especially when their grandchildren have no grandparents in their lives.

Suicide is such a selfish act.

Pray for their souls.

A truly sad story. Having seen the effects of suicide on family and friend survivors, I agree with Joshua about the selfisness of suicides—in fact I would consider it not only a supremely selfish act, but also extremely evil because of its effects on others and society.

“They had been fiercely independent all their lives and the last thing they wanted was somebody – whether it was us or anyone else – having to do things for them, even cooking a meal. “They wanted to be in control and independent as they had been throughout their life.”

Echoing the sadness expressed above, I’m struck by the fact that the above statement is not entirely true. As infants, everything was done for them by their parents.

That said, I can’t help wondering if even the first generation of Communists would have adopted such a nihilistic attitude to life.  How does one convince an atheist that quality of life is not confined to physical condition?

I can feel (and almost hear) the Holy Spirit grieving. 

Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell. 
Lead all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy!

What really struck me as disturbing in the article was the bit in the first paragraph about going out to a concert with their son and his fiancee. They didn’t think their deaths would not have adverse effects on his son and his relationship and, at the very least, cast a pall over their upcoming wedding?

How very sad indeed.

Hardly selfish. They will be lauded as models of altruism and consideration for suiciding out before becoming a burden on their families. And we, when we reach their age, will be expected to do likewise. That’s what scares me.

#7 has it wrong. This was the ultimate selfish act.

May we all be such excellent stewards and know when to leave the party.  This wasn’t an illness induced act (read depression), it was an act of personal Freedom.  It may not be your choice, but sucking up oxygen because not enough parts have failed to bring about death does not sound like a existence worthy of a free man; more like slavery to modern medicine.

#9

Well, to put it in purely secular terms, was the world they left so perfect that there was nothing that they could do in it to alleviate suffering and misery? And, as an earlier commentator remarked, this act hits not their children only, but grandchildren to be and friends.

#9,  It may happen at some point I will use up more o2 than is justified by my contribution to society.  Being how I will at some point be in a wheelchair because of my M.S.  I am so glad you had the Christian charity to point out the duty I have to defy the ghouls of modern medicine and up a cropper forwith.

Shall I Email you my address so that you can drop by with a hefty bag, a few I.V. tubes and the oopsie we did not mean to do it morphine doses?  Or should I just save up the anti spasm medication and swallow the lot?  I don’t have gas so head in the oven is not feasible.  Wait I know.  I’ll find out just how deep razors do cut.  What, too messy for you?  The idea of arterial spatter coating the bathroom walls too vivid?  Pills it shall be then. 
Shall I bequeth you my share of the O2, just to make sure it is used wisely and well? 

By the way if the elves 86 this I hope they at least let this remain.  I hope you were being sarcastic.

The Milner’s were not inhibited by their faith, had finished their collective “to do” lists and exercised a inalienable right.  What is holding them or any of us here?  Our sense of obligation; apparently the Milner’s felt they had met theirs.  Freedom is scary.

D Hamilton,  No what is holding me here is my very real belief in Hell.  Surprised????  But suicide by somebody who does so with full knowledge of what they are doing and who have no emotional or psychiatric reason to do so are committing a damnable act.  And my obligation to the laws of God are way above my obligations to fullfill your bat turd definition of freedom.

My brother committed suicide in July, 2002. He was truly one of the most talented and funny people I have ever known: taught himself how to play guitar (and there was absolutely nothing he could not play, after listening to it just once); was artistically gifted (while I, on the other hand, can’t draw a smiley face and have it be recognized as such by the average person on the street); and could spin a story in such a way that it left you hypoxic from laughing so hard.
He was also one of the most self-centered people I have ever known, which was epitomized in his final act. To this day, my family and I do not know if it was intentional or accidental (he had been dead for better than a day, before he was discovered - with the needle still in his arm), but it really doesn’t make any difference; either way, the outcome is still the same.
Coincidentally, I recently ran across a 1hr documentary (on You Tube) which chronicled a journalist’s efforts to identify the “Falling Man” who was photographed jumping head-first from the WTC on 9/11. Initially - and erroneously, as it turns out - the journalist determined that the Falling Man was a hispanic chef who worked at Windows on the World. While trying to get biographical information from the family, this journalist hit a solid wall of hostility from the chef’s wife - and especially from his daughters. Each of them were interviewed for the documentary, and their major bone of contention was the suggestion that their husband/father would have committed suicide by jumping. One daughter stated that it was inconceivable that he would have jumped, because in doing so, he would have gone straight to hell.
When juxtaposing the daughter’s belief with the two people described in this article, I find myself mulling over Emile Durkheim’s Five Theories of Suicide and am left wondering if all suicides are equal in the sight of God. Is there a difference between suicide as a response to feelings of hopelessness (like my brother) - and suicide as a purely egocentric act of self-determination (as with this couple)? When death is a proximal certainty, is it morally wrong for one to take matters into his own hands and choose the manner by which he will die (like the Falling Man or the Jews on Masada, shortly before the Romans breeched the ramparts )? Is “altruistic suicide” (e.g. a soldier throwing himself on a grenade), truly suicide (as Durkheim postulated)?

Our lives are not our own, we have been bought with a price. For the Christian, there’s nothing more to say, is there?
T

RE: “May we all be such excellent stewards and know when to leave the party.”

May none of us choose to exercise our free will—corrupt as it is—in this wicked way. 

Yes—many acts are “acts of personal Freedom.”  Many sinful acts are, too.

RE: “It may not be your choice, but sucking up oxygen because not enough parts have failed to bring about death does not sound like a existence worthy of a free man . . . “

Sure it can be.  You, after all, have equated “freedom” to having choices.  If someone exercises their will to live, than obviously—according to you—that is an “existence worthy of a free man.”

RE: ” . . .  more like slavery to modern medicine.”

There are all sorts of options open to “free men” short of suicide that will allow them to reasonably reject “modern medicine.”

No, exercising the choices of a free man may be moral—or immoral.  I pray those choices will be moral and life-giving.  Not death dealing and immoral.

While I utterly reject DHamilton’s assertions espoused in #9 and #12 (look at Steven Hawking who, for lo these many years, has not been able to swallow his own saliva, yet continues to live a very full life), his/her viewpoint has re-awakened a dormant issue with which I had long grappled: Is the refusal of medical intervention tantamount to committing suicide? Here, I think about Jehovah Witnesses who refuse blood products - and who I’ve (helplessly) watched die from exsanguination…or, as was recently in the news, a teenager who went “underground” rather than go through chemo for treatment of testicular CA (he and his parents were eventually convinced by the Court to give chemo a chance).
Conversely, I’ve taken care of many many patients (both in and out of the OR),  who have undergone the standard surgical intervention for pancreatic CA. Ostensibly, this is a curative procedure, but I don’t think I’ve had a patient who lived much longer than a year post-op…and invariably it was a year of misery. If chances of long-term survival are minimal with a particular medical intervention, while death is a proximal certainty without it, is refusal of same the equivalent of committing suicide?
A while back, I brought up Psalm 139:16 (“All my days were appointed for me before one came to be”) in another thread. Does this verse apply to everyone except those who commit suicide? In other words, do those who commit suicide have an indeterminate number of additional “appointed days” which are left in limbo, because they exited the stage too early?

DHamilton, as someone who had (but not for some time now) suicidal impulses during a 12-year period of estrangement (now ended) from a person who should have been very close to me, I must say that, for a Christian, suicide is cosmic vandalism against Jesus Himself.  One passage of Scripture especially reminded me both of the evil of the act and the grace given me by the One from whom no one took life, but who laid it down willingly, not to avoid suffering or stay independent, but to accept the suffering due the whole guilty human race in utter dependence upon and submission to the Father.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?  For you have been brought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body.

Paula Loughlin, you stick around (I know you will!) as long as the Lord has in mind for you.  You’re welcome to share as much of my oxygen as you like - I know God will just make more for us!  That way DHamilton can breathe easier until the accounting.

Thanks Milton,  at first I thought Hamilton’s response was a bit disproportionate (after all we aren’t exactly stacked on top of one another) but then I remembered the importance of clean air, not just O2, to producing thriving pond life and understood his concern.  So I sympathise.  For living in a closed ecosystem makes the pressure of environmental changes all the more manifest.

Wow .....
As followers of the One who choose to die rather than live, thus benefiting all - can you not see the foggy parallel. 

ORNurseDude - Mr. Hawkins chooses to live and apparently still has a full to do list - the Milner’s were at peace with their’s completed and did not cling to this side of the adventure.

The fear of their free choice expressed here might be worth investigating.

RE: “As followers of the One who choose to die rather than live, thus benefiting all - can you not see the foggy parallel.

Um . . . no.  Theologians and philosophers have for centuries and millennia now long understood the difference between martyrdom and suicide.  Perhaps a little wider reading would be in order.

RE: “The fear of their free choice expressed here might be worth investigating.”

Not really—men and women have chosen to sin ever since the Fall of man.

It’s pretty normal for human beings to be fearful of man’s propensity to use their free choice in order to commit sinful acts.

“...the One who chose to die rather than live… .”  DH, What Jesus does is the exact opposite of what the Milners did.  Jesus emptied himself and didn’t grasp for the power to have the final say about his life and death.  Jesus put his trust into the hands of his Father.  Pathetically, the Milners clung so tightly to their illusion of control that they were unable to trust their loved ones to love them in their diminished state.

Thank you, phil swain, you articulated what I felt but couldn’t figure out how to say. “Pathetically, the Milners clung so tightly to their illusion of control that they were unable to trust their loved ones to love them in their diminished state.” I think that’s the crux right there - and how sad if so, and how belittling to their children if so.

My wife’s 80-year-old father is moving in to live with us this week, after Mom died earlier this year.  He is hard of hearing and is getting a little absent-minded, but we gladly consider it our role at this time in our life.  He will be welcome in our home until we are no longer able to care for him.  The Milner’s don’t get it, as is true to form for their atheist world view.  Life is about serving God and others and bringing God’s Kingdom into this world.  We are called to be like Christ, the ultimate example of selflessness.  These people live in a different universe than my family.  How sad.

Excellent points by most commenters.

DHamilton (and elves), I reply to your #20 not to reply to you off-topic, but to clarify still further the chasm of difference between the Milners’ suicide and Jesus’ sacrifice of Himself offered up on the cross.  What (if anything) we believe about God and His relationship to humanity is the determining factor in our life decisions when the issue of suicide ceases to be an abstract discussion and instead confronts us with unbearable grief, hurt, violation and abuse, debilitating permanent injury and painful and/or terminal illness in our own life.

Can you not see even the foggy outline of why Jesus’ death on the cross was not suicide but rather the free will of Pilate, the Sanhedrin, Judas, and the crowds all being made to serve the eternal plan and will of God Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit for our salvation?  Knowing the Word of the Word who was with God in the beginning and who was God might help!

“I have the power to lay it (Jesus’ life) down and I have the power to take it up again.  This power was given Me by My Father”

“I once was dead, but now I am alive forevermore, and I hold the keys of Death and of Hades.”

“The Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

“Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the booty with the strong; because He poured Himself out to death and was numbered with the transgressors.  Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors.”

“The Father has given to the Son to have life in Himself.”

“I am the way, the truth, and the life.”

“If any man believes in Me, even if he dies, yet he shall live.”

“You are very much mistaken and do not understand the scriptures or the power of God.  He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

I won’t try to elaborate on the non sequitur of comparing Christ’s sacrifice with the Milners’ suicide, since others have done so more capably.

ORNurseDude (#17), I empathize with your family’s experience with your brother’s death; I’ve had three suicides in my extended family, and in each case the “collateral damage” to the survivors echoed on for a long time.  I stand by my earlier comment about the selfishness of the act of suicide, especially in the present case.  I would add that the Milners probably weren’t troubled in their faith by their decision because they most likely had no faith. 

Concerning your question about refusal of medical care, IMHO as an M.D., at least in cases where the benefits of treatment are equivocal (your example of pancreatic cancer) and the patient is a rational adult, I don’t think that refusal of aggressive treatment is equal to suicide, anymore than refusal of extraordinary measures is equivalent to denial or withdrawl of care (once instituted).  Especially as a Christian who believes that what awaits me in Heaven is far better than here on this earthly vale, I might opt for something that would permit me to optimize my time with my loved ones were I faced with a grim diagnosis, rather than dealing with lots of brutal side-effects from surgery or chemo.

But, I don’t fault those who choose to fight, and I don’t look at them as “oxygen thieves.”  I’ve had the privilege of caring for many people suffering from chronic illnesses or cancer, who know that they are going to die (as we ALL are), yet who live out their God-allotted days with grace, nobility, and thankfulness—even through their suffering.  And I believe that God in His providence permits us to know pain and suffering in this life to refine us for our eternal life.

Sorry Milton - either you have free will or you have an Eternal Plan.  If Judas was ordained to betray Christ - then the free will argument goes away; if he was able to choose not to betray Christ - then the Eternal Plan argument flops.  If Christ was not able to walk away from the cross, then you take free will away from Him, and there goes both God & Man paradigm.

The Milner’s, without the inhibitions of Judeo-Christian belief, saw their action as both a benefit to themselves and a benefit to society.  Even braver, they did not know what is on the other side, whereas Christ knew what awaited.  What seems to scare folks, is the idea that you too have that decision to make and maybe wonder who will make it for you?  How much will Hospice pump into you to relieve the pain?  Would you want the final dose, or to draw out your existence?  Will someone else be making that decision for you?  The Milner’s took control if that decision - again an act of free persons.

I keep thinking that in any relationship between two people, it is often the case that on any particular issue, one feels more strongly than the other. No marriage is completely 50/50 on anything or nothing would ever get done! I know on some issues in my marriage, what I want dominates because it means more to me and my husband compromises or just doesn’t care as much as I do about it, and vice versa. I find it hard to believe here that both husband and wife decided that this what they wanted to do at this moment. Not that I’m suggesting any force, but just based on human nature, one of them probably felt more strongly about growing old and dependent more than the other, one of them probably felt that this was the right time more than the other. Love is a powerful motivator - I would hate to think that someone was talked into this because of love, and that one of them might not have really wanted to do this but felt compelled because of the feelings of the other. My prayers are with them both, that they know God’s mercy.