“They’re disciplined,” Kerry recalled his counterpart saying of terrorist recruiters. And they don’t have a five-year plan. They have a 30-year plan.“We don’t even have a five-year plan,” Kerry continued. “We have got to get our act together.”
“The Standing Committee meets at the end of November to review the job description for the Secretary General of the Anglican Communion and to set the appointment process in motion.”
Given that the “standing committee” is virtually a wholly owned subsidiary of 815, I’m thinking about putting $5 down in Vegas that KJS is the next secretary general.
From the article:
(Lifeway Research says the survey used was a balanced online panel in February and March. Of the survey’s initial 3,000 responses, this report looked at the 557 who came from Protestants who described themselves as evangelical—which would be about 19 percent of the American population.)
No, they did not screen for evangelicals using any criterion other than self-identification.
Another point of view, in verse, from the inimitable Glen Scrivener, priest of C of E
Halloween: Trick or Treat?
It is frightening how true this is, I hope someone will tell me that I heard this wrong but I am afraid that I heard Secretary of State John Kerry correctly today when he said “These guys (ISIL) have a 30 year plan and we don’t even have a 5 year plan”.
As it stands now only God can help us so please pray that, in spite of the odds, we can elect some good God fearing leaders to lead our country back to the paths to righteousness on November the 4’th.
Jim, All figures except ASA are meaningless and in TEC, to some degree ASA is meaningless because many Rectors guess, estimate or lie. My best guess is the ASA numbers are also inflated and it is actually worse than reported.
To clarify: I counted only domestic dioceses, excluded Navajo and Micronesia, but included the now defunct Quincy.
If I may comment from an amateur statistical perspective, what I find most striking is the low number of infant baptisms.
53 dioceses have fewer than 200 infant baptisms; of these 23 have fewer than 100.
The paucity of weddings is also striking. Many priests (and permanent deacons) must be doing only a handful of baptisms and weddings a year. Some, I suspect, would do none.
I can’t argue with Dean Terry on that, and I bet the survey did not screen for evangelicals using those criteria.
I think it might be helpful to keep before us a set of criteria for describing what an Evangelical is that is more belief and value based than just the style of worship of a particular denomination. Here is a list of evangelical believes and values that comes from J.I. Packer and is used by Trinity School for Ministry (TSM) dean Justin Terry, himself and evangelical Anglican:
The word “evangelical” is used in many different ways these days, and there is much debate about its meaning. My preference is for J.I. Packer’s six distinctives of evangelicalism, which are endorsed by John Stott and Alister McGrath, all three of whom are prominent evangelical Anglicans.
The supreme authority of Scripture for knowledge of God and as guide to Christian living.
The majesty of Jesus Christ as incarnate God and Lord, and the saviour of sinful humanity.
The lordship of the Holy Spirit.
The need for personal conversion.
The priority of evangelism for both individual Christians and for the Church as a whole.
The importance of Christian community for spiritual nourishment, fellowship and growth.
Others Evangelicals have similar lists that would be worth consulting and comparing. Isn’t it wise to define your terms before the thread gets out of hand and the waters muddied by using a term as broad as “evangelical” without first defining the term in clearer terms that can travel from one denominations worship to another. I don’t think that you would necessarily become more evangelical just because you worship as a Baptist in a Baptist-style church. Of course the article we are talking about is not about what churches are evangelical or not but about the extent to which believers in ‘Evangelical’ churches hold wrong ideas about God. You might go to a church that meets the evangelical criteria of having a high view of the supreme authority of scripture and still hold a false view of the co-eternity of the Son with the Father. The problem seems to be churches that don’t teach the evangelical faith they profess or members who are careless about the teaching they get. Likely it’s both.
What do you others think of Dean Terry’s list of the characteristics of of an evangelical believer?
With regard to Jim’s point (#2) is this not a case where “hard cases make bad law.” Bishop Baker may well have been the innocent party in his divorce, but as a bishop (and a member of Forward in Faith) is he not called to offer a model of how such a breakdown should be handled by the innocent party?
Susan Howatch had as one of the characters in her Starbridge novels, an eccentric Anglo Catholic priest, who, after his divorce, felt obliged to live a celibate and chaste existence while his ex-wife still lived. That seems to me a good counter-cultural stance.
Is there any TEC definition of what constitutes a “baptized member”? Is that simply a record of all persons baptized in a TEC parish for which there is no death record, or where there is no actual request to be taken off the rolls because that person is leaving? Given that only about 650,000 people actually attend a TEC church on Sunday, the baptized member figure to me seems wildly inflated and rather meaningless.
Don’t worry, we have an Ebola Czar in charge!
The author of this piece was a professor at Nashotah House from 1992 to 2005, becoming eventually an academic dean.
I wonder, then, back on an old, not recently updated site, what he meant when he said this:
Reasons for Seeking another Position
After taking my first full-time teaching post at Nashotah House, it became obvious that it was not a “good fit” theologically. Nevertheless, I have committed myself to doing my job well and I have risen through the ranks here to the post of Associate Professor and Academic Dean. I have also gained invaluable teaching experience and have proven myself a talented teacher, as my teaching evaluations clearly demonstrate.
Instructors at Nashotah House teach mostly the same required courses annually, with an occasional opportunity to offer an elective. In my case this means covering an introduction to the entire Hebrew Bible annually. While this system has consequently enhanced my ability to teach all parts of the Hebrew Bible, it has also inhibited my interests and creativity in classroom offerings. I seek a position which will stretch and challenge me as I move forward in my various interest areas of Hebrew Bible study.
A larger school with a larger base of colleagues, especially in different fields, would be of great benefit to me at this point in my career. I am a team player and eager to interact with others in scholarly conversation. This would happen more readily, I believe, at an institution larger than Nashotah House (our student body is roughly 40 fte).
I don’t quote the above as a pejorative nor does it redound either positively or negatively to the points of his analysis of the GTS situation—it’s just that he mentions he was caught in a similar though more minor situation at Nashotah House and so I went searching.
MichaelA, here in the US “Evangelical” is a term used broadly to describe Bible-only Baptist-style congregations, whether actually Baptist or one of a large number of denominations and unaffiliated congregations. Here, it’s a style of worship —non-liturgical, with a sermon the focus of the event.
The Ebola cases which have occurred have been overwhelming to the hospitals affected. They’ve had to empty their ICUs and devote the whole staff their to the one patient. Texas Presbyterian suffered large financial loss and is still hurting; Bellevue in NY is having similar problems. Even one Ebola cluster would be extremely disruptive. Dallas has apparently escaped that and it is to be hoped New York will. However, NY City has already had one scare involving a civilian case (that is, not medical returnees).
Theo Hobson: the CofE “is in pretty good shape.” No, seriously. He actually said that. It’s hilarious.
I’ve always had the distinct impression, from reading his columns, that Theo Hobson is the kind of English expat who thinks the USA=NYC.
I should say, to my knowledge, the CofE though it opposed many of the alterations to civil marriage legislation over the last 150 years it has proved repeatedly incapable of sustaining such opposition. Eventually it has always come to claim as it own that which at its origin it often said it opposed.
The longest lasting relics of such opposition were:
1. The practical prohibition on remarriage after divorce in church - which by the 90s was commonly ignored in parishes and was formally overturned by Synod in the early part of this century.
2. The standards for clergy concerning marriage - which were a residue of the former teaching on the indissolubility of marriage. I think of the general rule that those divorced ought not to be be ordained (which was done away with in the 80s) and the similar understanding that those divorced could not be consecrated bishop (which has been done away with in the last few years).
I’m afraid, it does not bode well for the CofE’s capacity to sustain any opposition to recent alterations to civil marriage legislation.
I am just trying to work out - what is an “evangelical”? They don’t say in the article. Because if it just means someone who puts themselves down as “evangelical” in a census, then that may mean that they haven’t actually been to church for years - maybe occasionally at Christmas.
So some of the comments about liturgy could be wide of the mark - if the interviewer is quizzing someone who has only been to church a few times in the last 10 years, then its unlikely to make much difference whether their church has a liturgy or not!
Its also interesting to think what the percentages would have been if the same survey was conducted of people who tick the box for “Anglican”, “Lutheran”, “Catholic” or “Orthodox”. For all we know, the evangelicals might come out looking very good.
Wonderful that she has come safely through this.
What powerful work the Lord has done through the martyrs of Uganda!
“The suggestion that they might somehow resolve a 1500 year old schism with this document is risible.”
Ad Orientem, perhaps that attitude has something to do with why the Eastern Orthodox haven’t managed to resolve the schism in 1,500 years…
I love the creeds… All three of them…
#3, Ad Orienten, they don’t have a “liturgy” since they don’t do “sacraments,” but they do have routine ways of expressing themselves. The same prayers, or at least the same formulae, will be used week after week. If you’ve ever sat in on an evangelical bible study group or visited an evangelical independent or Baptist-style worship service, you’ve heard the way they pray, and I assure you they react often negatively to any change in the way they say and do things.
In my experience very few Evangelicals are liturgical in their worship. Most in fact would seem to be decidedly anti-liturgical.
CS Lewis said, “If you don’t listen to theology, that won’t mean you have no ideas about God. It will mean you have a lot of wrong ones.”
The corollary is that if you don’t spend the time to teach theology, your congregation will have a lot of wrong ideas about God.
PM, every year I rejoice to return to God’s time, standard time, and wonder why on earth we do the daylight dance every year.
I saw video of the second nurse, Amber Vinson, also thanking God first for her recovery.
Yes, #1, and at least the second marriage, between a man and a woman, maintains the Scriptural model as to who may marry. A “gay marriage” is scripturally an impossibility. We went way, way wrong when we began simply ratifying “no fault” civil divorces. I don’t know anything about Bishop Baker’s divorce, his first wife, or whom he is marrying. ECUSA consecrated a bishop who was twice divorced and thrice married, so that institution has been broken on the issue for a while now.
Anglo Catholics in the CofE have traditionally supported the indissolubility of Christian marriage (as per the historic Western christian view of Christ’s teaching). Indeed, understanding Christian marriages to be indissoluble was a common Anglican view until well into the 20th century.
If one takes such a view, as non modernist Anglo Catholics have often, to remarry is to commit a serious sin and to have a bishop living openly in serious sin is, well…awkward.
My guess is that orthodox theology is not taught in churches who see no need for it, do not think lay persons can understand it, or believe it to be divisive. As they would say, “it is all in the liturgy that we say every week.”
The problem is that divorce is a much more complicated scenario than homosexual, mainly in situations where one spouse did not cause or want the divorce. I don’t read the scriptures as saying the innocent spouse in those situations should be punished by not being able to remarry.
Anyway, you can’t even agree the date of the month, much less Easter with Rome or the rest of us.
Disciplinary questions are on a slightly different level than doctrine. But in any event why should we worry about it? We are not the ones who unilaterally altered the church calendar. If you want to celebrate Easter on the same day with us, the date is not a state secret.
I merely note that that some progressives have already used this decision to argue in favor of same sex marriage. “If he can…
It’s done folks, it’s been done for a long time.
Thanks for posting my article. FYI my last name is spelled “Matson”.
Pageantmaster, I remember hearing a story about that crusty old prelate, Mervyn Stockwood, being given a hard time by a group of Orthodox clerics of various jurisdictions about the fact that the Church of England was not in communion with any apostolic see. He looked and them and replied that most of them were not in communion with each other. Which was true.
#11 AO “Anglicans can’t agree on the theological time of day”
Hardly surprising, since this is the Communion on which the sun never sets. Anyway, you can’t even agree the date of the month, much less Easter with Rome or the rest of us.
PM, now back on GMT
“No bishops, no king.” —James I
This is silly. AFAIK the Anglican Communion has no doctrine whatsoever that is universally accepted as binding by all its members. Just a glance at the comments above should establish that Anglicans can’t agree on the theological time of day. The suggestion that they might somehow resolve a 1500 year old schism with this document is risible.
I just bought it. I have met Rick Belser and his wife, in connection with their stalwart support for the Diocese of Egypt.
I don’t think it a big stretch that +Mouneer would find this document quite acceptable- a great stretch in the right direction, in fact. And for that matter, if +Rowell is who I think he is, I imagine he is quite sincere in his signing on as well. Would not be surprised if it also pleases +Keith Ackerman and many Anglo Catholics and traditionalists, and the more Catholic leaning of the GS. In general, this is all above my pay grade.
But, for the pretended leadership of the Anglican Communion, this is just more cover for their enforcement of heresy upon Christian churches in their charge. This allows the bishops of CoE and TEC to proclaim that they are so orthodox, even the Orthodox think so, and then get back to gay marriage and Buddhist prayer rugs and throwing Christians out of their churches so they can be sold to Islamic centers.
2) At the very end, in which they state that the document will be referred to the “responsible authorities” in the Anglican Communion. Who on earth would that be?
I took the 2 biggest issues to be:
1) #6, in which elements of the Christology of St. Cyril, as enunciated and refined by Hooker, is held to be “normative” in the Anglican world today. Did anyone explain to the Orthodox that to Anglicans, the word “normative” implies something in the BCP that the majority in Europe or North America no longer believe? Witness, for instance, the PB of TEC, who was so glowingly praised by the ABoC prior to receiving her Oxford DD. Obviously, neither of them believes a word of it.
2) At the very end, in which they state that the document will be referred to the “responsible authorities” in the Anglican Communion. Who on earth would that be?
Rest eternal, and God’s blessings for that little boy.
Hard to say, Pageantmaster. I’ll go for “ambiguity,” myself. I do know that the saintly Bishop Mouneer Anis of Egypt has excellent relations with the Coptic Church and would be happy for a real agreement to be reached in his city.
I suppose my worry is about the orthodoxy of those Anglican participants, and about far more than the Theotokos.
Thinking about it, if they were to have represented the Anglican position the Anglican bishops would have agreed
‘God the Word…united unto himself without sin that humanity which he took from her’
Instead they wrote of the perfect humanity without sin which he took from her.
Clearly the Oriental Orthodox bishops seem to have thought that their Anglican colleagues were agreeing with them that the Theotokos was without sin. Were Bishop Rowell and the Anglican bishops in whose language the statement is written allowing the Oriental Orthodox to believe that, while staring at the ceiling with their fingers crossed behind their backs?
Were there no punctuation I could see your argument, Father Tee.
More problematically, I fail to see how a deliberate ambiguity can represent an ‘agreed statement’ on Christology, except in that peculiar world of Anglican Fudge.
I think the truth of the matter is that those with an interest in the Eastern churches get themselves on ecumenical conferences with those churches, much as those with an interest in Catholic matters get themselves on ARCIC. Then there is a wildly ecstatic announcement on mad TEC Anglican Pravda trumpeting agreement with in this case the Oriental Orthodox, or in the case of ARCIC with Roman Catholic doctrine, and yet again there will be another document trumpeting agreement with the Methodists.
It would be an interesting exercise to compare all these ‘agreed statements’ with various churches and their compatibility with one another. I suspect that we just agree with whoever we happen to be talking with at the time. Is that just a very English, and thereby an Anglican trait?
I am not sure that history is being made, so much as repeating itself!
Pageantmaster, the declaration seems to have deliberate ambiguity, doesn’t it? You can read it as saying that the sinless Christ, fully God and fully human, took his human nature from the Virgin Mary. Or you can read it as his sinless nature ditto coming from she who was already the Immaculate Conception.
Agreed Statement on Christology
...3….we confess the holy Virgin Mary to be Theotokos, because God the Word became incarnate and was made man, and from the very conception united unto himself that perfect humanity, without sin, which he took from her.
Really? It is Anglican doctrine that Mary was without sin? The immaculate conception?
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