A careful reading of the agreement indicates it is not different from the American COCU (CUiC) agreement. It does not authorize clergy not ordained by a bishop to function as CoE priests. The CofE as a state church has ecumenical relations with other state churches that are different from other Anglican ecumenical relationships. We discovered this in the Episcopal Moravian dialogue. The Episcopal Church and the Moravian Church in the United States were able to come to a full communion agreement with mutual recognition of episcopal ministry. The CofE and British Moravians were not able to do so because the CoFE had the state church mindset.
I remember reading stuff like this when I was a kid in Sunday School and believing it.
Re: the last sentence quoted in the first post.
Given the financial influence China has gained in Africa, it would be interesting to see how Kwong’s candidacy and election came to be.
These ecumenical agreements are flourishing, but it worries me that they may actually be taken seriously as churches proclaim beliefs that diverge from orthodoxy.
Interesting juxtaposition with the announcement of the unity agreement between the Church of Scotland and Church of England.
#3 That it does, Milton.
It is the Humpty-Dumpty school of wordmanship that they have all been to: Ms Phibalott, Bishop Idowu Fearon, Justin Welby, David Porter: Consequences, Celebrations not blessings, Indaba, Listening, Continuing Indaba, Conversations, Facilited Conversations, Bishops in Dialogue - to the rest of us it is all just word-abuse, and deeply dishonest. Just sickening.
‘I don’t know what you mean by “glory”,’ Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. ‘Of course you don’t — till I tell you. I meant “there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!”’
‘But “glory” doesn’t mean “a nice knock-down argument”,’ Alice objected.
‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’
Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. ‘They’ve a temper, some of them — particularly verbs: they’re the proudest — adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs — however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That’s what I say!’
‘Would you tell me please,’ said Alice, ‘what that means?’
‘Now you talk like a reasonable child,’ said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. ‘I meant by “impenetrability” that we’ve had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you’d mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don’t mean to stop here all the rest of your life.’
‘That’s a great deal to make one word mean,’ Alice said in a thoughtful tone.
Such a relief that the Anglican Consultative Council has Abp. Paul Kwong on it to facilitate the Anglican Communion like Beijing facilitates Hong Kong!
“Beijing has appointed [Archbishop] Paul Kwong, the spiritual leader of the Anglican Church, into the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, making the church a subject of the Communist Party’s rule.
In fact, the appointment implies that the Anglican Church is no longer an independent Christian church but a part of the Communist Party.”
Yes, Pageantmaster, it all does seem rather Lewis Carrollish and Wonderlandish, does it not? The Anglican Church seems able to believe six impossible and contradictory things before breakfast.
“No, you really don’t understand,” said Ms Phibalott, Communications Officer for the Diocese of Oxford, “The unsubstantiated public allegations of conducting a marriage or blessing made against a member of the clergy of the diocese are scurrilous and untrue and are made in a manner against all biblical principles of appropriate behaviour.”
“The Reverend Charmaine Newell-Post has not conducted a service of marriage or blessing - that has already taken place. This was just a friendly celebration of that marriage, with just a few friendly prayers and friendly hopes that God will look favorably on this couple invoked in a friendly and informal manner. Not a marriage or a blessing but more a consequence - a Service of Consequence if you like, all according to the rites of the church for services of consequences”
“As for the joining of hands, that is not what happened at all, the Reverend Charmaine  was about to topple over and the couple reached out to steady her in a friendly manner - did I mention that she is a friend of the couple?”
“The diocese hopes that the Chuckle Brothers will withdraw their allegations that Bishop Donker gave permission to conduct a marriage or blessing. Any further clarification can be obtained from Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne.”
Somewhat encouraging that at least in this one vitally important issue, a church seemingly hell-bent on plunging completely off the liberal Gadarene cliff has pulled back at the edge of the precipice. May God bring them back to their faithful roots entirely.
In Korea, many churches put a big red cross on the top of the church. In Seoul, you can see these crosses all over the city, pretty much wherever you look. It actually makes quite a statement about how strong Christianity is in Korea. From the pictures, it looks like the same thing happens in China. I can see how the government could view that as a challenge.
We prayed for ++Jackson yesterday. I am convinced that during his time in office, we will see a profound impact on GAFCON, and the Anglican world…in ways not yet ascertained.
Listen to him preaching at the link made available here, and referred to in Anglican Unscripted 230.
Wow, that started getting condenscending quickly.
The text says I will pour out my spirit on all flesh but this conflicts with Calvinism. I guess I do agree that they church needed repairing and restoring even as it was being formed.
The Church of England and TEC are at the state the Communion was in when William Wilberforce came on the scene and for pretty much the same reason - failure to instruct and train in the Faith handed down.
A modern day Wilberforce has yet to rise up. I pray it doesn’t take 50 years to turn the Church around as it did then.
Hint: Recycle the freshly made cups, and
keep going until you have no cups to recycle.
Very encouraging news.
Prayers for Archbishop-elect Sapit: may God surround him and the Anglican Church of Kenya with his holy angels to protect them; may the Holy Spirit encourage and empower them in mission and evangelism with His wind behind them; and may they be aware of the presence of their Lord Jesus Christ guiding them in obedience and mission, always lighting their path clearly in front of them as they seek to follow the path He leads them on for His names sake and for the sake of the people of Kenya and the rest of the Church.
I cannot figure how they get their answer to number five about the cups. Anyone know?
“I am prepared to compromise on almost any issue save that. On this point there can be no compromise. If the tug has to come, better now than later.”
-Abraham Lincoln (March 1861) responding to the demand by commissioners from the seven seceded states that he withdraw his opposition to the extension of slavery into the non-state Territories of the United States as a condition for the restoration of the Union.
Instead, the bishops asked for the body’s permission to name a special commission that would completely examine and possibly recommend revisions of every paragraph in the Book of Discipline related to human sexuality.
Yep, when you’re losing a game, change the rules in your favor. They have studied the TEC playbook.
I think this assessment of what the progressives have tried to do, and what “moderates” are still trying to do, and how the traditionalists in the US & now reinforced from Africa et alia are holding, is relatively brief for all it covers, and shows the reasons for hope around the UMC beyond 2020. But it’s true, the GC is not over, the maneuverings will continue in this interim the Left has bought for itself.
Anytime the Revisionists get to set the agenda it could end badly. I fear this was allowed by the more conservative representatives out of frustration from the constant disruptions at General Conference from the Revisionists. It was a poor choice at a poorly run conference.
By Throwing the question of what to do to the Council of Bishops, who are themselves at odds and who lean towards either wholesale allowance for or compromise with the Revisionist agenda, takes away any initiative that was gained when Rule 44 and introducing Delphi/Indaba to the General Conference was voted down. The case of Bishop Talbert and the policies in West Coast and New York Conferences give an indication of the direction the bishops are going to take the church. The Revisionists saw they were losing at GC and threw a Hail Mary pass that got caught. We’ll see where the feet come down, but just as goal posts can be moved, so can boundaries.
#3 Knapsack—I wish I could be as positive as you on the outcome, but my own personal experience says otherwise. When I left the Episcopal Church in 1997, my family moved over to a healthy evangelical PCUSA church that was growing. At the time I had a discussion with both a knowledgeable elder and with one of the associate pastors about my concern with PCUSA and that the same forces that were destroying TEC would destroy that denomination as well. I was confidently told at that time that I didn’t have to worry, that the evangelical/conservative portion of the denomination was growing, that the liberals/progressives were all elderly and would diminish and die off over time, and that PCUSA would remain orthodox.
Well we know where we are today. PCUSA is falling apart, with churches and members leaving at a rapid rate and many other churches being closed because they have emptied out. The flagship evangelical megachurches that had been the core of PCUSA and kept it going financially have largely all left. That elder I talked to ended up leaving and moving to the PCA. The associate pastor I talked to went on to pastor another church and then took his church out of the PCUSA to ECO. My own church also ended up leaving PCUSA for ECO, paying a rather substantial sum as ransom to PCUSA in order to leave. In the end my church has survived, but not without a lot of harm being inflicted on it because of PCUSA. Instead of spending the last decade trying to share and spread the Gospel, my church had all of its time and energy consumed dealing with the PCUSA.
The point is that the leftist forces inside the mainline are like a cancer. They never stop trying to infect the healthy cells and destroy the organism. When it is to their benefit to “enforce the rules” to disrupt or damage the healthy part of the church, they will demand adherence to the rules. When it is to their benefit to violate and ignore the rules to advance their agenda, they will claim that “prophetic vision” and “Christ’s all-encompassing love” means they can simply flaunt and ignore the rules. What is going on in the UMC is just the same process that destroyed TEC and PCUSA.
Unless the cancer is fully excised from the Body of Christ, it will continue to try to kill the Body of Christ. I would love to see the African/conservative part of UMC prevail, but they have to understand that the only way it will stop is to “expel the wicked ones from among you.” (I Cor. 5:13) All of the clergy that have declared themselves in violation of Biblical requirements prior to this convention need to be defrocked and expelled from the denomination to show it will not tolerate the non-Christian cancer. But I doubt that will happen. Instead, despite the clear instruction of Scripture, the cancer will be tolerated and it will grow and grow and is likely to destroy the UMC.
You need to drill down in the coverage. This is foot-dragging on the way out the door for progressives; the Judicial Council is now majority traditionalist (Americans reinforced now with Africans), and on the floor, the balance is steadily swinging to enforcement of norms. If it weren’t for the 40-some activists on the 150 College of Bishops, this would be over, and the 2020 GC solidly traditionalist. They need to drag this out with the current seated delegates and voters, because the board is cleared and the new voices in 2020 won’t even let them get their “removals” from the Book of Discipline to the floor.
The United Methodist Church is standing strong, radical (and many/most of the worst of those retired) bishops notwithstanding. And even they don’t make up a majority. There’s no need for a schism—the Left wants to provoke one so they can create a rump Methodist progressive body out of the West Coast conferences and a few cherry-picked college town congregations, and get out with assets and buildings in their control. Check the Twitter hashtag #UMCGC and you can see that it’s the Left that wants a split, and they’d better be able to push for one except that they want to also make it clear that it’s conservatives’ fault the split happens, even though they’re just saying patiently, over and over, “the guideline for marriage & faithfulness or chastity in singleness stands.”
Wow! Great quote.
This is all so predictable. Why anyone stays in U.S. mainline denominations I don’t know. You compromise on the Word of God and you inevitably descend into chaos. Maybe they have to look at what the words “he” and “she” mean as well.
Meanwhile, no one in the pews has any idea this is going on. Watch those pews empty out as this process gets going.
I am sure the Methodists are taking notes. Some to emulate EcUSA and some to emulate Quincy. The biblical test of the fruit of “the issue” ought to be patently clear to all as to the LGBT? “gozpell” and its effects, but none are so blind as those who will not see.
Considering what happened at Lusaka,this refrain of “Walking Together” reeks of hypocrisy. It goes to the top of my list of phrases that should be censored from the language, or at least retired until they can be rehabilitated. I admit to having used some of them myself, but now I renounce them:
1. Walking together
2. A place at the table
3. Raising awareness
4. On the Ground (this one is OK if you’re in a combat zone)
This version of the prayer, though heavily indebted to the Gelasian sacramentary, comes not from there, but from the American edition of the Grey book of 1933. The prayer in the Gelasian, though, is the Collect for the Mass during the Day on Pentecost Sunday in the current Missale Romanum. See http://liberlocorumcommunium.blogspot.com/2016/05/an-ancient-collect-for-pentecost.html.
In such a world, his utilitarian contemporaries believed, there would be no wrongdoing. It would have been planned, legislated, and regulated out of existence.
In a sense, as evil is declared good in changing laws and in increasing lawlessness ignored by society, “wrongdoing” has been noticeably legislated out of existence. Except, of course, by those who declare good to be evil, which they will prosecute vigorously.
This is very far from definitive, but I’ve been able to get “universam ecclesiam” to occur at only one point of relevance in the H. A. Wilson edition of the Gelasian, and there (http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015006952322?urlappend=;seq=214) the prayer matches this one (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044081840076;view=1up;seq=84), which is worded somewhat differently. (Haven’t looked very hard, though.)
In other news, the fox thanked the ABC for appointing him to the chicken coop guard Task Force.
Thanks, as always, Kevin and Fr. George.
I always enjoy your program, as sad as the news is with which you have to work.
After months at sea, the task force will return to port reporting no new lands discovered, no new passages charted, but with flags hoisted signalling that the journey together was a rousing success and that a great time was had by all.
Similar approaches are known from history and they do not end well. But don’t take my word for it, check out Russia, Italy and Germany in the 1917 - 1939 era for countries that experienced such aggrandizement of power.
Do note the last intention well. Those who have been useful idiots to the elites now-in-power via the judiciary will be rewarded for their efforts as their efforts deserve in the eyes of their new masters: “6 Finally (trigger/crudeness alert), f*** Anthony Kennedy. ...<such attempts were> only trying to figure out arguments that would get Kennedy’s apparently crucial vote (not so crucial any more )...”. Emphases added.
Sounds like indabadabadoo.
Kevin and George nailed it in their May 13th “Anglican TV broadcast”:
Delphi: very much so. I haven’t spoken to anyone there, yet, but from what I can see it was the Africans who seemed most against it. One wonders if they haven’t been the ones attending who have been watching the antics in the Anglican Communion more closely. The Americans I do speak with seem oblivious to what has occurred in the AC.
Precisely my thought, Marie Blocher.
Small groups - Delphi style?
I’m surprised this hasn’t garnered more attention, not just amongst commentators here, but from the Anglican blogosphere in general. I know that Anglican politics and fudge have largely lost their ability to surprise.
I wouldn’t have been surprised in the least if the task force never came into being. I wouldn’t have been surprised if it did happen but was so limited in its powers that it was essentially a farce.
What’s happened here is of a different order, though. Canterbury has followed through on creating a task force (fair enough), but:
1) he’s completely redefined their mandate.
2) he’s appointed a group that is so biased that it beggars belief.
This is the closest an Archbishop of Canterbury has come to giving the middle finger to the Primates of the Anglican Communion. One could argue that Rowan did so long before, but at the very least he was subtle about it.
I suspect it is a game of chicken, Milton #1. They decided to let the Canadians, Irish or English go first rather than put themselves in the firing line. Also Kiwis do tend to talk to one another and respect their views which doesn’t happen so much elsewhere. They seem to be more consensual with their different tribes, as well as being one of the most culturally and geographically diverse provinces, notwithstanding being leaders in loony liturgy.
The Welsh are out ahead at the moment, but nobody cares much. About the size of half an English diocese they are nevertheless about to disappear down a demographic black hole of their own making, whatever anyone does it seems, which is a pity.
Translation? Maybe - “Give us two years. By then we should have run the conservatives out like TEC did in America and then we can do whatever we want.” Reminds me of Obama telling Putin’s one term stand-in that he would have more freedom to do what he wanted once he was re-elected to a second term.
Isn’t the point that this task force is concerned with the polity consequences arising out of TEC’s breaches of the bonds of affection which are central to the polity of the Communion where most of the provinces are in broken or impaired communion with TEC and breaches of the doctrine of the Anglican Communion set out in the Communion’s decisions in Lambeth 1:10 and the Windsor Report?
As for the rest of the appointments, it is the usual palefaces from England, Ireland, Canada, Australia with one Indian and one South East Asian who they think will be accomodating for a bit of dressing. Justin’s chums, for Justin’s purposes. No real say for the majority of the Communion in the Global South.
The January Primates Communique states in point 7 of Addendum A:
7.It is our unanimous desire to walk together. However given the seriousness of these matters we formally acknowledge this distance by requiring that for a period of three years TEC no longer represent us on ecumenical and interfaith bodies, should not be appointed or elected to an internal standing committee and that while participating in the internal bodies of the Anglican Communion, they will not take part in decision making on any issues pertaining to doctrine or polity.
May I ask how the Archbishop of Canterbury squares that with this appointment of TEC’s Presiding Bishop Michael Curry to this Task Group pursuant to point 8 of Addendum A to the Communique? Is it not a group concerned with ‘doctrine and polity’, even if he can wriggle his way around the definition of ‘internal standing committee?’
Well said. This is the issue of our day.
Thank you Bishop Mark for your inspiring Biblical sermon. May the Lord continue to bless richly your ministry as you stand for the truth.
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