RECENT COMMENTS
By David+ on May 29, 2007 at 2:42 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Anglican Church in a 'mess' over gay bishop row
For the life of me I can not understand why the ABofC did not wait to consult with the Global South following the September 30th deadline for TEC. Just announcing the dates would have been enough at present for the bishops to put it on their schedules. Now what is he going to do come fall and TEC has not repented? Uninvite most of TEC’s bishops? He has placed himself in an extremely awkward position to say the least and it shows poor leadership. No wonder the GS is getting more and more fed up with him and making more and more noise about an alternative Communion.
By SouthCoast on May 29, 2007 at 2:27 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Breakthrough in Breast Cancer Screening
As I said, I read that “culling” remark elsewhere, and see no reason for umbrage to be taken at my remarks. They were cautionary. And, believe me, when you read a suggestion that you shoulda been flushed, it’s NOT an act of one’s imagination.
By Karen B. on May 29, 2007 at 2:20 pm [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Parish's Vision and Values Survey
Oh, what fun for a data geek!! 
But seriously, kudos to this parish for taking on such a challenge. A TON of work involved here, and it looks like a well-done and useful survey and report from the little I’ve skimmed.
I was fascinated by the question on five basic theological beliefs:
These were: a) Jesus Christ lived a sinless life; b) God is all-powerful and all-knowing; c) Salvation is a gift from God
and cannot be earned; d) Satan is a real being; and e) Christians are responsible for sharing their faith with others.
Boy, wouldn’t you love to have data on those questions for every parish, and for ECUSA as a whole?! (Hey, we could even do a mini-survey as the Titusonenine blog community!)
Anyway, it’s nice to see evidence of a growing parish, and one where folks are seeking to learn what’s attracting folks to the parish and what their concerns are. WELL DONE!
By John Wilkins on May 29, 2007 at 2:14 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Two Social Ethicists and the National Landscape
Dorrien is a formidable thinker. Thanks for posting this. I’ve heard him lecture several times, and he is thorough.
By Br. Michael on May 29, 2007 at 2:07 pm [comment link]
From the entry: A Look Back to 1960
Sarah, please check the Greek. Do a word study of “tongues”. When Scripture wants to refer to speaking in other human languages it does.
By Bob Maxwell+ on May 29, 2007 at 2:04 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Speaking in tongues: Faith's language barrier?
One thing we all agree on is that that Holy Spirit gives us any charism that we might use in our Lord’s ministry.
I’ve learned that there are at least 28 Gifts of the Holy Spirit and that they are not always present in the believer while at least one is ours to exercise for the Body of Christ. Theologically, I believe that it is given at baptism and like an unopened and often forgotten baptismal present awaits our discovery, unwrapping, giving thanks to God and putting to use,
Here’s my story. . .
I had become a Methodist while in HS and in ‘60 was a sophomore at Asbury College that fall.
Asbury College, a school in the Wesleyan Holiness Tradition, believes in the a Second Blessing that is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. However, having faced Pentecostalism since the Azusa Street Revival and other churches, they not only rejected “speaking in tongues’ but announced that any student caught speaking in tongues would be immediately expelled and shipped home at the schools expense.
Fidel was busy closing the avenues into and out of Cuba, a land that I was feeling an attraction toward and wondering if I had a call as a missionary. To prepare, I had chosen Spanish to meet my language requirement.
Right after the World Series, a young Cubano arrived at Asbury, was allowed to enroll late and I volunteered to be his roommate. A Cuban Methodist with an evangelical faith, I would often find him sound asleep in our close in a prayer position , having fallen asleep as he followed our Lord’s teaching literally while he interceeded for family and friends still in Cuba.
We listened to the shortwave broadcasts from Swan Island and then the disastrous invasion by the brigade. We both were upset that Negroes from the USA were not accepted as applicants while missionary sponsored Negro Africans were accepted. Local “bubbas” from Jessamine County mad a ruckus driving through the circle drive in front of the main buildings. With family money tied up and the administration teed off with his vocal protests, no scholarship money was available for Leo to continue in school.
I read my Wesley, returned to their Church in the USA, ECUSA, and as a priest in my first little parish in ‘72, I read Nine O’Clock in the Morning. I discovered that praying and singing in tongues was a gift of the Holy Spirit. The Christ the King Community, in South Bend IN at that time, helped ground me with sound teaching.
Accepting a call to St. Peter & Paul in the Imperial Valley of CA, I became a member of an ecumenical Charismatic prayer group and was sponsored for Cursillo. It was there that I met and became friends with Francis McGuire, a Cursillo Spiritual Director and rector of a parish in a San Diego suburb—and the priest that had invited Dennis Bennett to come and see…
I am a three streams Trinitarian Christian: High Church, Evangelical and Charismatic.
I didn’t see Leopoldo’s name again until as a priest leading an experimental urban regional cluster in Omaha and serving as Bishop’s Deputy for Urban work, I read that two Episcopal priests from New Orleans had been arrested at the close of the Mariel Boat Lift: Joe Doss and Leopoldo Frade.
+Leo has served his Lord faithfully. I don’t agree with his stance on Lambeth 1.10, and he knows it. I know he loves Jesus.
We both know that Pentecost is real in the life of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and would encourage you to daily surrender control of you life and will into the care of Christ Jesus.
I remain a Wesleyan in the Church of the Wesley’s. I hope a way is found so that I still can while I remain in communion with the GS faithful.
By Anonymous Layperson on May 29, 2007 at 2:03 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Truth and Consequences?
Apologize to your family, friends and ED (emergency department) faculty for your extremely inappropriate behavior
I’m rather shocked that some feel the above order to apologize is appropriate for discharge instructions. I have no problem with the ER doctor telling the patient she owes an apology for her behavior, but to put it in the medical record as “instructions” is not kosher- as the hospital quickly agreed.
0.22% blood alcohol is (as I understand it) drunk as a skunk
The tolerance of chronic alcoholics to alcohol is astonishing. I recently testified in a court case (I’m a toxicologist) involving someone who came to work with a blood alcohol of 0.35%. The individual was able to function and suspicion was only raised by the odor of alcohol. I’m sure I would be in a coma long before reaching that level…
By The_Elves on May 29, 2007 at 1:59 pm [comment link]
From the entry: OPEN THREAD: "Bugs" "Turkeys" "Requests"
Greg, I may be seconding Martial Artist’s (#58) comment about some weird HTML rendering.
See my comments #17 and #18 on this thread:
http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/3228/
In #17 the italic didn’t render properly
in #18 the blockquote didn’t render properly.
The software turned my angle brackets into the < and > codes, causing the HTML not to render.
Perhaps it is something in what I was quoting from Cousin Vinnie (the em dash, or the scare quotes perhaps??) that caused the funny rendering?
When I wasn’t quoting Cousin Vinnie, the software handled my code fine.
By libraryjim on May 29, 2007 at 1:58 pm [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
being unclean did not make them sinful.
????
unclean does not equal sinful.
???
‘still trying to process that one.
In Judaic society, if something was unclean, and you even touched it, you had to undergo ritual purification. If you ate something unclean, you had a more rigorous process. If you participated in an unclean ACT, you could be exiled or even be stoned to death!
By hyacinth on May 29, 2007 at 1:53 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Truth and Consequences?
Robroy said:
“Sounds like she is a garden variety drunk blaming others for the “bad luck” she has while drunk.”
Robroy, I would suggest your bias colors your read of the facts. Assuming your read of the medical events are as you present them, the ER doc behaviour (not medical judgement) was inappropriate. Again in many states, state review boards would raise questions regarding whether or not the acceptable standard of care was met. I would suggest most review board would say it was not. The fact that the patient did or did not have a hairline fracture is irrelevant to a review board as opposed to a court of law.
This hospital knew the behaviour of this doctor was inappropriate and promptly settled the suit. This physician’s behaviour is embarrassing to the profession. I recognize the profession takes a lot of abuse from ungrateful members of the public. THIS is not the physician behind which you want to be rallying that flag. I too would have advised a quick settlement.
For those with little sympathy for the patient, think of the foolish things many of our kids do on prom nights. Irregardless of the silly drunken stupor a son or daughter may be in, if this had occurred to my child, I would expect the same standard of care for my child as that used for a sober one.
By The_Elves on May 29, 2007 at 1:52 pm [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
Hmmm. Not sure why my HTML didn’t work above. The tags look correct. Forgive me for a little test.
italic
bold
Testing the Alabama link above.
Blockquote test:
Cousin Vinnie Wrote:
<blockquote>The establishment in TEC carefully controls and scripts its “education” classes to avoid any real opportunity for expression of dissenting views—I mean, views that are in line with 2000 years of orthodox Christian thinking.</blockquote>
By RoyIII on May 29, 2007 at 1:52 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Truth and Consequences?
Well, we certainly do not want to hurt thhe drunk’s feelings.
By The_Elves on May 29, 2007 at 1:48 pm [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
<i>The establishment in TEC carefully controls and scripts its “education” classes to avoid any real opportunity for expression of dissenting views</i>
I seem to recall a case in Alabama which would support Cousin Vinnie’s point. You can read about it on the old T19 site:
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=5862
By carl on May 29, 2007 at 1:48 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Anglican Church in a 'mess' over gay bishop row
Rowan Williams’ actions are consitent with his imperatives. He is trying to keep everyone in play for the sake of the CoE.
The invitations to the Americans are designed to pre-empt the ability of the Primates to act after September 30th. He added the comment about withdrawing invitations to create ambiguity, but he will never withdraw these invitations. The AoC simply cannot allow TEC to be expelled. To do so would expose the left flank of the CoE. The demands brought upon TEC would inevitably be brought home to England. And how would the CoE react? Its leadership is largely sympathetic to TEC. So also the general population of the UK. It would be an impossible situation.
So Rowan Williams invites everyone. Despite all the sound and fury about VGR, he knows TEC et. al. will show up. TEC has a large vested interest in maintaining ties to the Communion. Come the end of September, he will walk away from the HoB meeting with a compromise proposal which he will assert is a reasonable response to Tanzania. TEC is in the bag already.
His concern is rather the Global South. How does he get them to come? He forces them to come, or choose to walk out. The choice he will not impose on TEC he has already imposed on the GS. So the AoC by these invitations has forced the GS leaders to put up or shut up. The AoC is betting they will shut up and go to Lambeth - despite their statements to the contrary. If he is wrong, the laity of the CoE will crack at its very foundation. But in his mind, I am sure he thinks that a slim chance is better than no chance at all.
By William P. Sulik on May 29, 2007 at 1:43 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Please Don't try this at Home
Therefore a lion from the forest will attack them, a wolf from the desert will ravage them, a leopard will lie in wait near their towns to tear to pieces any who venture out, for their rebellion is great and their backslidings many.
-Jeremiah 5:6 (NIV)
By Loren+ on May 29, 2007 at 1:42 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Anglican Church in a 'mess' over gay bishop row
There will be “significant absences” at Lambeth—the question remains who? Will it be the supporters of +VGR or of +MM? The ABC has thrown a monkey wrench into the HOB’s plans. They now know that +VGR is not invited; they have been pushed to their own wall. Come September they will have to decide whether to abandon +VGR in order to compromise with ABC and the GS, or they will have to back +VGR and either not go to Lambeth or be uninvited for having rejected the Windsor/Dar es Salaam roadmap. I cannot see any possibility of trying to avoid a definitive statement yet again. This is exasperating for reasserters because it holds open the possibility that ABC will “cave in” by not uninviting the +VGR’s supporters. Personally I think at least some of the HOB will break from Canterbury, and ABC will un-invite them to Lambeth. It is a shrewd Solomon-like decision, and I pray that RW will have the courage, strength and patience to see it out to the end to see which reappraisers will walk apart visibly, demonstrably and unrepentantly.
By Brian of Maryland on May 29, 2007 at 1:39 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Methodist bishops table proposed new gay stance
Chip,
Alas, that means the advocates have accomplished part of their goal. It’s more than simply “keeping it on the radar.” As one advocate for change explained it to me, “Either this church recognizes our gifts for ministry or justice demands we burn it to the ground.”
By libraryjim on May 29, 2007 at 1:37 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Today's Quiz: What is the Fastest-growing High School Sport in America right now?
I was talking with one of our neighbors Saturday, and her teen-age son has just come to live with her. After trying out for (and playing) a few different sports, he decided to try out for the Lacrosse team—and says he’s found his sport! He absolutely loves the game. (From what I understand, they didn’t offer it at the school he used to attend.)
By Weiwen Ng on May 29, 2007 at 1:36 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Breakthrough in Breast Cancer Screening
Dear Southcoast, please quote the phrase in the article that recommends that people be “culled.” There is no such recommendation in the article.
You mischaracterize the use of genetic screening. Also, there is no “culture of death”. And genes are not deterministic for conditions like cancer. Having the genes they discovered increases the probability of getting breast cancer, but having the gene does not mean that you’ll develop cancer for sure. The rest is in the environment. There are very few diseases for which one gene is deterministic - have gene = have disease.
As I said, this will be used for health education, and preventive treatment - and perhaps someday for genetic therapy. There are potential dangers, such as the potential for insurance discrimination. However, the article spoke of treatment and screening. There is nothing to do with abortion except in your imagination.
By Cousin Vinnie on May 29, 2007 at 1:27 pm [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
Rick in La, the problem is not that reasserters may be challenged to prepare a course comparable in scope and breadth as that offered by the guy who gets paid to spend all day doing this kind of thing. The problem is that they will never have that chance. The establishment in TEC carefully controls and scripts its “education” classes to avoid any real opportunity for expression of dissenting views—I mean, views that are in line with 2000 years of orthodox Christian thinking.
I also note that the course seems to have little time for direct Bible study, preferring to rely on what selected authors say the Bible says.
By RevOrganist on May 29, 2007 at 1:14 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Colorado Congregation Votes to Leave the Episcopal Church
It is mind-boggling how those who disregard, or try to re-write, Holy Scriptures and preach Pluralism rather than Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation….thereby separating themselves from the One, holy, catholic Faith as handed down by the apostles and saints through the centuries, then claim WE are the ones trying to redefine the Anglican Communion. The ECUSA, as it is living out its new gospel and theology has become a gay, universalist, and unitarian sect. It will be the Primates who determine whether they will remain part of the Anglican Communion. I look for that decision to be made on September 30th.
By libraryjim on May 29, 2007 at 1:14 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Tomás R. Jiménez: Immigrants don't destroy our national identity, they renew it
If Spanish speakers are not forced to learn English, that is because our administrations don’t force native Americans to learn English.
IF by native American you mean ‘American Indians’, then the analogy is flawed, since Native Americans are not considered Americans first. They are treated as soverign nations within our borders.
If, however, you mean those born and raised in this country who have US citizenship, then also remember that most of the goods and services in the country are offered primarily in English, and there have been and continue to be efforts to make English the “official language” of all governmental entities. (So instead of “press 1 for English”, the default will automatically be English).
You would not, probably, be surprised at the number of people who come into the library who cannot speak English, and are ‘offended’ because we don’t have someone on staff who is fluent in Spanish or Hatian, or (fill in the blank). I hate not being able to help them, but the facts are that we are just not set up for multi-lingual “customer service”. (When we advertised for an Hispanic Outreach staff person, none of the applicants could translate a simple paragraph from Espanol to English! So it’s not for want of trying.)
Jim Elliott
By The_Elves on May 29, 2007 at 1:11 pm [comment link]
From the entry: OPEN THREAD: "Bugs" "Turkeys" "Requests"
Greg, another case where the name “Stand Firm” shows up instead of Titusonenine.
When one goes into one’s account control panel, up in the upper left hand corner where the website “tree” is displayed (i.e. where you can click back to get to the previous page), it shows “Stand Firm”
Example:
Stand Firm > Login
or:
Stand Firm > Control Panel Home > Email Settings
Though in both cases, when one clicks on “Stand Firm” one correctly gets back to the T19 home page. So this is not a big problem, just a case of trying to minimize confusion and help differentiate the two blogs for users.
—elfgirl
Ack. Sorry. I see this is the same thing sda already raised and you noted in #48 / #49. NEVER MIND and sorry for the duplicate. It’s been a long few days.
By SouthCoast on May 29, 2007 at 1:10 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Breakthrough in Breast Cancer Screening
I read about this earlier, elsewhere. As a breast cancer survivor, I thought, “Good!”. Then I read a little further where it was triumphantly stated that now the unborn with the bad genes could be culled in order to prevent any possibility of breast cancer. My blood froze. And if I, according to the prevailing ethic of the culture of death, should have ended my life as a cluster of bloody cells flushed down the nearest sink, what of my younger, beloved sister, who has lupus? Why is it that every slippery slope I mocked in my youth has come to pass? (Although the answer to that latter is sadly self-evident, I fear.) Oh, Lord, make haste to save us.
By drjoan on May 29, 2007 at 1:09 pm [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
Some practical observations:
First, this is a SUMMER session course. In my experience, Episcopal Adult Learners (EALs) don’t usually attend summer courses with any regularity. However, since this is on sexuality, there might be more willing to forego weekend camping trips for Sunday School.
Second, this course requires homework in the form of reading from the bibliography. I would expect the books would be available from the church library (or perhaps on sale) for the use of the EALs. And again, since this is about sexuality, they might be more willing to do the reading—I wonder about the readability of Countryman or Kelsey, though.
Third, each session must be quite long considering the amount of content covered. In my church, the interim has effectively cut the Adult Education class time to less than 1/2 hour.
By The_Elves on May 29, 2007 at 1:08 pm [comment link]
From the entry: OPEN THREAD: "Bugs" "Turkeys" "Requests"
Martial Artist (#58), I assume Greg accepts PMs. I know he’s swamped.
Peter (#59) I’ll forward your request on to Kendall. It may be hard to break him out of his current style after something close to 20,000 blog entries between the old blog and this one!
By HowieG on May 29, 2007 at 1:06 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Anglican Church in a 'mess' over gay bishop row
I’m surprised that ABC sent any invitations to any TEc(cult) Bishop. Considering the HOB’s response to the Tanzania demands, one would think that it would be better to wait to see IF the TEc(cult) still wants to be part of the AC.
H
By KAR on May 29, 2007 at 1:02 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Martyn Minns--The Church is Flat: A New Anglicanism
Boy, I wonder if +Minns will have Os Guinness give an in-depth critique?
(Sorry, slight in-joke, Os Guinness has a talk he gave about the challenges for the Church in the age of Globalization, used much of Thomas Friedman’s <u>The World is Flat</u> as his frame work to work off in a similar way Alister McGrath challenged Dawkins’ book. Os’ favorite word was modernity in that talk (I grew a little weary of it). So Os Guinness’ bishop using Friedman’s work as a spring board struck me with an element of irony—I laughed).
By Peter in Fairfax on May 29, 2007 at 12:54 pm [comment link]
From the entry: OPEN THREAD: "Bugs" "Turkeys" "Requests"
Can I make a request for Kendall’s normal formatting? It would be very helpful if he could put blockquote tags around the news items that are quoting from other sites; I often get confused about attribution of sources. That way he wouldn’t have to put his own comments in italics.
Cheers
Peter
By Phil on May 29, 2007 at 12:52 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Anglican Church in a 'mess' over gay bishop row
Many of them had expected that all the liberal American bishops would be excluded from the Lambeth Conference unless they reversed their unilateral pro-gay agenda.
Not unreasonable, given the Dar-es-Salaam communique. Archbishop Williams undercut all the blood, sweat and tears of the primates who toiled at that meeting thinking their efforts mattered.
By robroy on May 29, 2007 at 12:49 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Anglican Church in a 'mess' over gay bishop row
As I argued elsewhere, the main point is not that VGR or Minns wasn’t invited but rather that the American bishops aside from VGR have been, and, as a consequence, the GS have been tacitly un-invited. The ABC is well aware of the statements of the GS (CAPA, Road to Lambeth, etc) as well as their resolve. If the ABC explicitly hadn’t invited Orombi or Akinola, there would have been millions crying foul, but that is, essentially, what he has done.
By Chip Johnson, cj on May 29, 2007 at 12:46 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Methodist bishops table proposed new gay stance
One small, prairie UMC where I am priveleged to serve occassionally, has suffered greatly because of this issue’s constant appearance ‘on the radar’. The barely viable congregation has split, with the ‘dissenters’ meeting next door, in the old school house museum, leaving a few older Methodists to fend for themselves (and pay the bills), and cry real tears over ‘what’s happened to our nice little Church?’.
The problem has come home to them much more vividly than it has to any Episcopal Church I know of, since the Episcopalians are still plugging along, with their heads in the sand, saying, ‘Oh, well, it won’t happen here’.
By Irenaeus on May 29, 2007 at 12:44 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Truth and Consequences?
Sounds like the emergency room doctor did poor diagnosis and let his disapproval of Howe’s intoxication color his medical judgment.
But at this point we don’t know the number and seriousness of the other trauma cases the doctor had to deal with. Nor do we know whether Howe’s intoxication and demeanor might reasonably have affected the priority she received relative to other patients.
In any event, the assertion that the discharge instructions were “intended only to humiliate and cause psychological injury” is implausible. Someone with 0.22% blood alcohol is (as I understand it) drunk as a skunk and should be admonished not to abuse alcohol. And if Howe did behave in such a disorderly manner that the emergency room personnel needed to physically restrain her, she owed them an apology (even if the doctor’s discharge instructions were not the place to make the point).
(BTW, I wonder whether the doctor’s cultural background will, overtly or covertly, become an issue in this case.)
By C.B. on May 29, 2007 at 12:42 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Colorado Springs Parish votes to break from Episcopal Church
While I agree with Sarah that more information would be helpful in understanding the full implications of the low turnout (Grace/CANA, itself, has acknowledged that the turn out was low), given the high profile the vote has had for forty plus days, the level of rhetoric against TEC and Bishop O’Neill that has come out of the mouths of both Armstrong and the CANA vestry, to attribute the low turnout to indifference does not seem either likely or possible. In addition, comparing this vote to other votes by the congregation shows us very little. What other vote on any other matter could have been so important?
By robroy on May 29, 2007 at 12:38 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Truth and Consequences?
As I said, not every drunk needs a CT scan. Yes, it is a “simple test” but an expensive one about $500. There are alot of drunks in the ERs, especially at Denver General. With reasoning like s.j.‘s, it will become the standard of care (read defensive, CYA medicine) for all drunks to get a CT, and we will all foot the bill.
Also, as I said, “possible CHI and TBI” is non-diagnosis diagnosis. It is what I write on a admission form or CT request form. The patient did not have them or presumably the lawyer would be crying to the hills.
Please re-read the discharge instructions. That is a verbal scolding??? I can’t imagine it being more innocuous.
By Irenaeus on May 29, 2007 at 12:27 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Truth and Consequences?
Sounds like the emergency room doctor did poor diagnosis here and let his disapproval of Howe’s intoxication color his medical judgment.
At this point we don’t know the number and seriousness of the other trauma cases the doctor had to deal with. Nor do we know whether Howe’s intoxication and demeanor might reasonably have affected the priority she received relative to other patients.
But the assertion that the discharge instructions were “intended only to humiliate and cause psychological injury” is implausible.
By alfonsoq on May 29, 2007 at 12:18 pm [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
My post was cut off, I guess due to an html error. Anyways:
Very nice. Very clear. When I take that class I’ll end up knowing that my sense of justice is better than God’s, or at least what got written in the Bible, and so it simply is a matter of common decency to exalt my desires for sexual gratification above the text of Scripture and Tradition. We’d be so much better off if only those evil global south primates could drop their stupid ignorant beliefs and get in line with modern enlightened thinking such as mine.
By Deja Vu on May 29, 2007 at 12:17 pm [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
No agenda??? From the teaching for Class 3
Countryman’s argument makes good sense especially in view of the Greek words Paul used. The word Paul used was parallel the similarly used word in Leviticus; both words carry the connotation of “dishonorable” or “abomination.” Neither the author(s) of Leviticus nor Paul used words that meant “ethically wrong.” Indeed, Paul did use such a Greek word in the Letter to the Romans - but not in reference to homogenital relations. Again, Paul seems to have regarded homogenital acts as unclean, but, being unclean did not make them sinful.
By Paula on May 29, 2007 at 12:12 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Speaking in tongues: Faith's language barrier?
I do not consider myself a “Charismatic” (I do not have this gift and have not sought it specifically), but I would hate to define myself as a “Non-Charismatic,” as many seem to do. If a church were to deny the reality, or the currency, of a gift of God, it would be a deal-breaker to me, for it would be the same as limiting God’s power to perform miracles. Of course God can give this gift in any time or place: what an impotent Creator He would be if He could not. I do not agree with cessationalists at all, so limiting God. This gift should not be proscribed (“forbid not”) or required. But God is certainly able to do or not do as He will. I was happy to read your testimonies, and I rejoice in this Charismatic witness in the Church—witness to God’s power, beyond what is ordinary or explicable to the world.
By Sarah1 on May 29, 2007 at 12:10 pm [comment link]
From the entry: A Look Back to 1960
RE: “Sarah, I talking about private prayer language that is in no known human language. I do not think that Paul was forbidding this, only its use in public worship where their was no one to interpret it.”
Thanks for the definition, Br. Michael.
In response to your question, I am happy not to “deny” that people speak in some sort of unintelligible speech as a part of their devotional prayer life.
Though I have not yet come to a complete and full conclusion, I suspect that this is not at all the references to the gift of tongues that Paul was referring to.
Nor have I the desire for people to stop speaking in the way that you describe . . . I simply do not offer it the same name that others do in the calling it “tongues”.
Hope that helps.
By Sarah1 on May 29, 2007 at 12:05 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Colorado Springs Parish votes to break from Episcopal Church
RE: “This kind of turnout after the highly publicized “40 days of discernment” can only be viewed as a vote of “no confidence” in the current leadership of the church.”
Well—from the revisionists, yes, that’s how it can be viewed. ; > )
Otherwise, we don’t have enough information. We’d need to compare the numbers of those who voted in other parish elections, and we’d need to compare with those other parishes of similar size who voted on CANA affiliation.
I suspect that more likely it merely indicates *indifference* regarding diocesan affiliation.
But again, we don’t know. We’d have to figure out some way to judge the reasons for the turnout and attempt to discover whether the turnout is fairly typical or an odd thing.
By Sarah1 on May 29, 2007 at 12:01 pm [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
Actually, the website says this is a class that was taught at St. Paul’s in 2004.
Sadly, this man has moved on to offer his unfortunate theology to Trinity Hattiesburg, in the Diocese of Mississippi. What a tragedy for that parish.
By Deja Vu on May 29, 2007 at 12:01 pm [comment link]
From the entry: Methodist bishops table proposed new gay stance
In defending the proposal’s shelving, Oklahoma bishop Robert Hayes said that advancing the recommendation would have “proven to be divisive and counterproductive to the unity that currently exists” among the bishops and in the church.
Of course, unity does not currently exist on the ground in the USA. Those pushing this agenda will continue to ordain gays and lesbian activists and their advocates and place them in positions to drive out traditional believers. Both lay and ordained sexually active gays and lesbians, and their advocates, will continue to be placed in positions of leadership.
By Sarah1 on May 29, 2007 at 11:52 am [comment link]
From the entry: Methodist bishops table proposed new gay stance
RE: “Let’s move on!”
No, no, Phil Snyder—that only is said after the progressives win a legislative victory. Then the cry is “we are wasting valuable time on obsessions with sex, when we could be doing mission and ministry to the poor and sick of the world through the MDGs—let’s move on!”
; > )
By Sarah1 on May 29, 2007 at 11:49 am [comment link]
From the entry: Colorado Congregation Votes to Leave the Episcopal Church
RE: “Sarah #30, I appreciate your compliment….but it was not my intent to be “clever or misleading”.”
No compliment intended—sophistry is never a good thing.
RE: “Nor do I intend to “take the name of the “Anglican Communion’ in vain”....but I largely agree with you that it is being redefined.”
It is not at all being redefined and of course we do not agree at all.
What is happening is that some people desire that a new communion be established, with the result that there will be an Anglican Communion—defined as those in communion with Canterbury—and another type of communion entirely.
What is very wrong and lacks integrity is when orthodox Anglicans claim to be a part of the Anglican Communion while at the same time attempting to redefine the Anglican Communion into something else AND claim that ECUSA is not a part of the Anglican Communion when that is not the case.
Why not simply be honest and state that you are a part of a new developing communion that is in communion with the province of Nigeria, that ECUSA remains a part of the Anglican Communion, and that we would very much like for that to change.
By dwstroudmd+ on May 29, 2007 at 11:48 am [comment link]
From the entry: Methodist bishops table proposed new gay stance
The document and recommendation should have also declared that the present proposed change “is based on highly questionable theology and biblical understanding and causes profound hurt to thousands of loyal United Methodist members and potential members.”
Alienation of traditional teaching adherents on the basis of speculation causes greater hurt than that suggested by the retired bishops on behalf of 1-3% of the population. Who’s hurting whom the most?
By alfonsoq on May 29, 2007 at 11:35 am [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
Rick, he sets a high standard for preparedness, that I agree, but it is not so difficult to counter. He bases a ton of heresy on the straw man of sexual intimacy being more than procreation. If that “more than” is OK for heterosexual practioners, then it’s OK for the rest, right? Wrong.
I looked over some of the class notes and see the curriculum has several conservative works included (and criticized), yet when it comes to the conclusion, there is this:
The church’s traditional ethic - well represented by the phrase ‘celibacy in singleness, fidelity in marriage’ - is woefully inadequate. It denies the rich diversity of sexual experiences and relationships that bear moral substance, and it establishes uncritically the exclusive claim of heterosexual marriage to moral propriety and sexual maturity….The church has promoted sexism, and actively or passively oppressed and punished sexual nonconformers.
The conclusion ends with two egregious points. First, using citations he says it is a matter of justice that norms of “sex in marriage only” must be changed and not people change to fit that norm; with the claim that this, in italics, is the ethic of common decency. Second, the misplaced assertion that “sexual desire and passion” connects us not only with each other, but with God, and “can be ennobling,” with the clear subtext, <em> in line or out of line with certain Scripture texts, and thus inside or out of heterosexual relationships, and in or out of marriage.
By Bryan on May 29, 2007 at 11:30 am [comment link]
From the entry: One Episcopal Church's Adult Sunday School Offering in 2005
St Paul’s was one of the parishes that pushed for +Maze to allow same sex blessings last year.
By Anonymous Layperson on May 29, 2007 at 11:26 am [comment link]
From the entry: Truth and Consequences?
Speaking as someone who works in the medical field- the discharge instructions were simply embarrassing. However one may feel about the value of the “advice” given, it was unprofessional. A lecture to the patient has no place in discharge instructions. The patient perhaps deserved an apology but certainly no monetary damages were warranted.
By Shirley on May 29, 2007 at 11:22 am [comment link]
From the entry: Memorial Day 2007 (2)--In Flanders Fields
#5, That is sooo pretty. Thanks.
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